como estaz 4×16: ultima lucha

Rob and I did another one of these, right after LU ended, because I thought I would have a lot energy to get out about the show. I did, but it was for more positive than I was guessing. We spent about 80 minutes talking about the finale and where it leaves Lucha Underground, and about 20 minutes talking about everything else.

right click download/rss

The audio’s actually decently balanced this time! I need to either make my mic less sensitive or stop messing with things which make clicking noises during the show. Don’t worry, the audio will surely be worse next time we do this, in a few weeks.

Lucha Underground 3×40: Ultima Lucha Tres – Part IV

he’s amazing


Matanza defeated El Dragon Azteca (8:27, Wrath of Gods, good)

Mil Muertes defeated Cage & Jeremiah Crane for the gauntlet of the gods

  • Cage Weapon X on Jeremiah Crane (11:33)

  • Mil Muertes Flatliner onto a chair Cage (14:04)

Prince Puma beat Johnny Mundo (c) to win the Lucha Underground Championship and keep his career (18:23, 630 senton, excellent)

Pentagon Dark defeated Prince Puma (c) to win the Lucha Underground Championship and to end Prince Puma’s career while saving his own (8:27, running package piledriver, great)


two seasons of Dragon Azteca have led up to this

Everything came to an end.

Dario Cueto’s deception of Black Lotus came to an end. Dario had long ago convinced her Dragon Azteca had killed her family, when it was Matanza all along. Lotus returned, attacking Azteca once again to set up a surprise powerbomb on Matanza. Lotus got Dario to admit he was a lair, while also suckering Lotus into an attack from Matanza. Lotus found out the truth, but her shot at revenge seemed to be at an end. Dragon Azteca didn’t fare any better. He technically won the match by being thrown thru the cage, but Dario restarted it and Matanza destroyed Azteca for most of it.

The battle over the gauntlet seems to be concluded. Dario made the three way match an elimination match. All three men were covered in blood even without the help of the super powered gauntlet. Cage finished Crane by suplexing him out of the ring thru two tables and Mil Muertes, then brought him back in for a Weapon X. Mil Muertes was able to catch Cage with a Flatliner on a chair to eliminate him. Dario presented Cage and Catrina with the gauntlet, Muertes posed, the lights went out – and King Cuerno returned to lay out Muertes. Cuerno got revenge on the man who sent him to ambulance one Ultima Lucha ago, and took the gauntlet for himself.

Taya’s documentary wrapped, and we saw it in all of it’s star wipe glory. Thumbs up.

Prince Puma’s quest to win the Lucha Underground Championship for it’s second time reached it’s destination. It didn’t come easy. Worldwide Underground got involved with referee Marty Elias was taken out. They dragged in Rick Knox to make the count, but Prince Puma kept kicking out. Angelico made a surprise return for a safe, clearing on Worldwide Underground once, and then a second time when Ricky Mundo unwisely charged with a kendo stick and was easily disarmed. Puma survived a top rope Moonlight Drive and Fin de Mundo to hit the 630 to win the title and save his career


Dario was not done. He revealed one more match: Pentagon Dark cashing in his Gift of the Gods to face Prince Puma. Dario made it career versus career as well. Pentagon broke Puma’s arm early in the match, with Puma wrapping his arm but wrestling one armed most of the way. He still had an opening for the 630, but Vampiro pulled Pentagon out of the way. Pentagon eventually finished off Prince Puma with a running package piledriver to win the title for the first time, and to end Puma’s career. Vampiro put the belt around Pentagon’s wait, and declared the Temple was his as a dejected Puma left.

Lucha Underground concluded with a series of vignettes, similar to season 1:

  • a dejected Prince Puma walked out of the temple one last time, but not before dropping his mask on the floor.

  • King Cuerno back in his trophy room, with the gauntlet as his newest prize

  • Sexy Star, on a red carpet, was given a present by a young girl and warned “she hasn’t forgotten”. The present contained a spider, confirming it wasn’t Cortez/Veneno who resposible for them.

  • Máscarita Sagrada insisted he was not the white rabbit but told the Rabbit Tribe he could take them to him/her/it

  • Fenix & Melissa drove off in Fenix’s firebird, but Catrina had an eye on them (still with feelings for Fenix) – and Crane seemed to be watching all of them

  • In the Reptile Tribe throne room, Pindar was tied down. Daga swung a sword around and, with Kobra Moon telling him he needed only one more thing to become her king, Daga chopped off Pindar’s head. Drago, chained up, didn’t seem to like this much. Daga & Kobra Moons seem to be getting along much better.

  • Matanza is back in his cell. Rey Mysterio is also locked up, as Black Lotus has been in the past.

  • Vampiro told his master that Puma was gone forever and Pentagon was raised to new heights. His Master, a masked man, told Vampiro he did a good job and he (Pentagon?) would soon fall.

  • Dario Cueto apologized to Agent Winter about not getting the gauntlet, but he’ll fix it. Agent Winter told Dario not to worry, Dario’s getting a pass on this. Dario was surprised, but Winter explained it didn’t matter, because Dario would be dead – and shot Dario twice in the gut. Winter said new management would take care of it. Winter left, and Dario grabbed the red phone. He called someone in his dying breath, spoke in Spanish, and passed out. The person on the phone called Dario Jefe, but that’s all I got. (Twitter says Dario said “I need your help”, which sounds right.) It appears Dario Cueto may be dead, but they left it slightly open – the closing sound was a pounding heartbeat drum effect, and then silence.

The show ended with “To Be Continued”, just as the previous seasons did.


when it’s not your day

I don’t even know what to say here. Opener was good for what it was for. Three way match was great (and even a little better live.) Puma/Mundo was outstanding. Pentagon/Puma was thrilling. The stuff they’ve teased all year was cleared up in the last few minutes and unexpected stuff was set up. If you’ve followed this show for the last three seasons, this was everything you wanted in a finale.

Well…maybe you didn’t want Dario dead. They left an out, I hope they take the out, I can’t imaginethis show without Dario. On a night where LU gave us a thing people’ve been wanting for the last 60 or so episodes, Pentagon as champion, they teased one of the things people would least want to happen. It’s a heck of a cliff hanger. Is Dario alive? Who could replace him?

I’m not sure anyone can really replace Prince Puma. His week in, week out strong matches were a major part of season 1, and his performance tonight belongs among those. The match was Mundo was outstanding before and after the interference break (which didn’t really harm the match). Going straight from that to another match with Pentagon working with one arm ratcheted up the difficulty even more. Puma handled it fine. There’s fair reasons to have doubts about how he’ll do in WWE, but don’t forgot what you saw for the last three seasons: this man can get over as a top of promotion star given the opportunity. If WWE doesn’t get the same return out of him that Lucha Underground did, it’s says a lot more about WWE’s weaknesses than about Ricochet’s.

when it IS your day

Pentagon is an ace of a different sort. LU still stubbornly wants him to be the villain, though not a single person in that building wanted to boo him at the end of the night. He’s the charismatic king of a temple full of lunatics, and you can accomplish a lot with that. There’s no obvious next challenger lined up, and even some of the usual suspects have other stuff going on. (Mundo with Angelico, Muertes with Cuero, Fenix with Crane?), and I don’t know exactly what a season 4 title reign would bring Pentagon. But I hope it’d bring him the long, dominate reign people have been waiting for.

There’s so much to talk about, and I can’t cover it all. Matanza might be that next challenger, because he looked impressively dominant in his match. Cage put in the an athletic performance which would be far an away the best on most shows. Aneglico looked great in his return, and I’m hopeful we finally get to see that big match. The vignettes came off great, even if a couple of them – Rey, Sexy Star – made me confused knowing they left open plots for people who they might have known weren’t coming back. (They sure had decided Pindar wasn’t coming back!) On the podcast, a chat room person suggested Vampiro’s master might just be Kevin Kross’ character, and I’m interested in seeing how that plays out.

I really hope it all does. I’ve hoped that all along, but everything about this episode of Lucha Underground made you want to see more episodes of Lucha Underground. I hope Dario and the rest lives a while longer.

final Lucha Underground episode (of S3? of ever?) tonight, LA Park to Crash

main event of episode 1

CMLL (TUE) 10/17/2017 Arena México [CMLL, Wrestling With GIFS]
1) Pequeño Nitro & Pequeño Violencia b Angelito & Fantasy LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
rudos took falls 2/3
2) Astral, Magnus, Metatrón b Espanto Jr., Grako, Nitro LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
Grako replaced Canelo Casas (MIA). Tecnicos took 1/3.
3) Lady Maravilla, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit b Amapola, Reyna Isis, Tiffany LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
tecnicas took 2/3.
4) Drone b Raziel [lightningLUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
Drone won in 7:30.
5) Hechicero, Puma, Tiger b Fuego, Guerrero Maya Jr., Stuka Jr. LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
rudos took 1/3
6) Cavernario, Euforia, Felino b Diamante Azul, Marco Corleone, Niebla Roja LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 17 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
Cavernario beat Niebla Roja in straight falls, setting up a title match next week.

Semimain sounds like it went well, but the rest of the show wasn’t noteworthy.

#NGD kept the trios titles over the Panthers in Guadalajara.

CMLL said they have a press conference today. Apparently not at noon, since that time has come and gone. CMLL’s pushed Informa to Thursday this week, so that probably means it’s in the afternoon spot.

CMLL’s got articles up hyping the Caristico vs Volador (& Mistico) issue, and the two title matches.

Lucha Underground

Today is Lucha Underground episode 105, the 40th of this season It’s also possibly the last episode of the series. Matches announced for the show.

  • Matazna versus Dragon Azteca Jr. in a cage match
  • Cage versus Mil Muertes vs Jeremiah Crane in a gauntlet match
  • Johnny Mundo (c) versus Prince Puma for the Lucha Underground Championship

This is a long way away from the Blue Demon/Chavo Guerrero “classic wrestling” opener.

That’s three matches in a two hour show. LU often airs three matches in a one hour show. These matches went longer than usual and may be edited less than some of the recent ones, but that leaves a lot of time for everyone else.

Lucha Underground put up a trailer for the episode, which seems to give away one key spot (so you may want to skip it.)

We didn’t know only three matches were scheduled for the final show on the Sunday of the final taping. (Even when I saw it, I thought the trios title match was airing this week.) We did know Pentagon Dark was Gift of the Gods champion. The ladder match was taped on Saturday, with the other matches from last week’s episode and this week taped Sunday. “Do you think Pentagon’s cashing in tonight?” was the primary topic of discussion in the line waiting to get in on Sunday, and it’s the main discussion again 15 months later. The Dario Cueto video posted to YouTube ends with someone coming into his office off screen, which could be interrupted as Pentagon coming in to try and cash in already. Or it could be someone else.

I would record a couple of minutes extra just to be safe. LU usually comes in on whatever time they need, but El Rey sometimes starts airing it 30 seconds late. I don’t know that there’s a big thing happening at in the last minute, but it would fit.

CultIcon has a preview of the show. ESPN interviews Johnny Mundo about his post-WWE time.

We’re going to be doing a podcast (audio only) after the show ends on YouTube. Check twitter for a link later on, and it’ll be posted on the feed later on as usual.

Last night was the 4DX showing of the finale. Way 2 Real has some interviews and video from the showing. The theater seems less full than I expected for something people were having trouble getting tickets. They asked people not to reveal the episode, one last #nospoilers, and it seems to have worked. They’re doing another airing tonight.

Taya was there, and was angry at someone who still hasn’t apologized. I don’t think Vampiro was there and I think he did apologize, so this is probably Dorian Roldan.

I would be very surprised if there was any resolution – renewal or cancellation – of Lucha Underground’s status tonight. It’d be great if it was, but it’s probably going to be a few weeks. I’m sure everyone who was part of the show figured they have a resolution before the finale, but I’m guessing they put it together there might not be one and the episode needs to work either way.

This last episode airing also starts a countdown clock for anyone who’s contract has ended after three seasons. Rey Mysterio, Prince Puma and Sexy Star are said to be up, and others have definitely hinted in that direction.

The Crash

The Crash announced LA Park would be coming to their promotion. There’s no mention of when he’ll start appearing or how often he will. This is a big change. The Crash had been interested in using Park previously, but LA Park had been not so much interested in them. Many of LA Park’s biggest possible matches are against people currently working for The Crash, but he’s been able to work against them on neutral shows. Maybe LA Park’s mood changed. Maybe he thinks The Crash is close to enough to getting a TV deal.

At any rate, The Crash is now halfway to being a real major league lucha libre promotion:

  • Step 1 to being a major promotion is employing LA Park
  • Step 2 is something going wrong LA Park, leading to him leaving or other people leaving

LA Park is great, but I would get to any big matches with him ASAP because something is bound to happen. Something all does.

The Crash also announced Rush would be on their 12/03 show in Ecatepec.

More Stuff

Dalys & Zeuxis are already in Japan for REINA, and wrestle on 10/25. Dragon Lee & Titan are already there for NJPW, winning in their first night. Titan actually got the win (though over a rookie.)

Okumura is also in Japan, and says he’s aiming for a return to the ring in late November. He mentions again he was close to having his career ended by the neck injury suffered in practice.

NJPW posted all the ticket on sale info for FantasticaMania.

+Lucha’s podcast talked to Garza Jr., Prayer & Guerrero Maya Jr.

Drago is happy with his recent successes.

Sensacional de Luchadors asks Aeroboy about his feud with Black Terry.

An AAA spot show on 11/25 in Torreon is a rare card with both Dr. Wagner & Silver King on it of late.

El Universal is starting a weekly feature on lucha libre photographs.

LuchaWorld has the latest news update.

Segunda Caida reviews Hechicero vs Valiente.

Tigre Rojo took Barbaro I’s hair in Arena Coliseo San Ramon.

Miguel Reducindo talks about the action figure sized rings he makes. You can order them thru his Facebook


IWRG (SUN) 10/22/2017 Arena Naucalpan
1) Celestial Boy vs Power Bull
2) Ángel Oriental vs Demonio Infernal
3) Ludark Shaitan vs Lili Dark
4) Eterno, Oficial 911, Oficial AK47, Oficial Fierro vs Liderk, Rayan, Spartan, Spector
5) Black Terry, Chico Che, Hijo del Alebrije vs Pirata Morgan, Violencia Jr., X-Fly
6) Black Dragón, Dinamic Black, Dragón Fly vs Hip Hop Man, La Mosca, Pleito Castillo
7) Bombero Infernal, Imposible, Mr. Electro vs Capo Del Norte, Capo Del Sur, Máscara Año 2000 Jr.

The Capos show up in Dinamita outfits feels like a knockoff NGD trio, if it’s meant to be one or not. I still can’t bring myself to add them to a database; give it another week.

CMLL (TUE) 10/24/2017 Arena México
1) Bengala & Sensei vs Artillero & Inquisidor
2) Astral, Magnus, Star Jr. vs Akuma, Cancerbero, Raziel
3) Blue Panther Jr., Fuego, Pegasso vs Puma, Sagrado, Tiger
4) Ángel de Oro, Blue Panther, Johnny Idol vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Hechicero, Pólvora
5) Felino, Mr. Niebla, Negro Casas vs Kráneo, Pierroth, Rush [Relevos Increíbles]
6) Niebla Roja © vs Cavernario [CMLL LH]
second defense

Even though I’m not sure Niebla Roja is sticking around, I still don’t know if Cavernario’s actually going to get the win. He doesn’t get a lot of wins.

the promotion that gives you “Canelo Casas, booked for weeks despite not appearing” gives you “Johnny Idol, booked despite not being in the country.” Maybe he’ll be back, but I don’t believe it.

CMLL (TUE) 10/24/2017 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara
1) Black Sugar & Metatrón vs Furia Roja & Guerrero de la Muerte
2) El Gallito & Microman vs Mije & Perico Zakarías
3) Esfinge, Guerrero Maya Jr., Rey Cometa vs Ephesto, Luciferno, Sam Adonis
4) Diamante Azul, Marco Corleone, Stuka Jr. vs Rey Bucanero, Shocker, Terrible
5) Carístico, Mistico, Volador Jr. vs Euforia, Gran Guerrero, Último Guerrero

Mistico, Caristico & Volador teaming up here too. Micros are back after about four months.


CMLL Martes de Nuevo Valores: 2017-10-10 

too easy

Recapped: 10/14/2017

All matches aired live from Arena México


Apocalipsis & Artillero beat Bengala & Flyer  
(11:40 [4:06, 3:49, 3:45], 1/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

La Vaquerita, Lady Maravilla, Marcela beat La Comandante, Metálica, Tiffany
(16:32 [6:34, 4:18, 5:40], 1/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Esfinge, Fuego, Pegasso beat Disturbio, Misterioso Jr., Sagrado
(10:41 [3:57, 3:26, 3:18], 2/3, n/r, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Pólvora beat Rey Cometa in a lightning match
(5:27, Polvora Driver, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Drone, Guerrero Maya Jr., Titán beat Máscara Año 2000, Rey Bucanero, Vangellys
(11:17 [5:00, 2:59, 3:18], 2/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Cavernario, Felino, Terrible beat Ángel de Oro, Niebla Roja, Valiente
(19:08 [2:33, 8:44, 7:51], 1/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

What happened:

Cavernario and Niebla Roja feuded, with Cavernario sneaking in a foul on Niebla Roja at the finish.

CMLL neglects to to turn up the sound on the broadcast until after the first match.


Artillero actually gets hit

The main event and the semimain had the rudos swallowing up the técnicos for most of two falls. It hurt the main event to get do the same thing over again, even if it was more focused by the Niebla Roja/Cavernario feud. The producer seemed more interested in the women in the crowd than the match too. This was a less exciting técnico showcase than the match that preceded. Not bad, but something to get thru to finish out this show instead of something to enjoy. Niebla Roja uses the same reverse campana as he would on Friday, so that’s clearly his new big move, and it’s smart layout to have Cavernario and Niebla Roja to get in moves before the big finish. Tirantes seems to forget what he’s supposed to be distracted by at the finish.

The semifinal wasn’t going to work from the start given the rudos. It was one of those matches where it only sort of works for the third fall, when the técnicos do their usual offense and then lose anyway. Drone did better here than he would on Friday.

no idea

The lightning match was Rey Cometa flying out around entertainingly, and Pólvora doing about one more. Rey Cometa calmly landing on his feet after a moonsault and walking around was cool, but he didn’t have a lot to work with.

How did Esfinge end up on all three streaming shows and who can I talk to about making sure that doesn’t happen again?

Metalica does a few things well and forearms really hard. I hope she gets a singles match here sooner or later. A title match with Sugehit would be new, but I’d take a simple lightning match. Comandante and Tiffany aren’t good and Maravilla couldn’t do much with them, but she’s still sympathetic enough to get cheered. Vaquerita’s finishing elbow drop landed oddly and painfully for Tiffany.

The lowlight of the opener was Artillero accidentally hitting his head on Flyer’s feet and knocking himself silly for a few seconds. He still won. Flyer’s been upping his t-shirt design game.

new move is old move

Marco defeats Rush to stay champ, Tuesday preview

some really good Sky Team teamwork

CMLL (MON) 10/16/2017 Arena Puebla [CultIcon, CMLL]
1) Ares & El Perverso b Centella Roja & Hijo de Centella Roja LA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
2) El Malayo & Fuerza Chicana b Lestat & Millenium LA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
3) Asturiano, Eléctrico, Stukita b Guerrero Espacial, Joker, Mercurio LA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
4) Cuatrero & Sansón © b Esfinge & Stigma [Arena Coliseo TAGLA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
first defense
5) Carístico, Mistico, Volador Jr. b Mephisto, Rey Bucanero, Terrible LA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
6) Marco Corleone © b Rush [CMLL HEAVYLA MEJOR LUCHA LIBRE EN VIVO DESDE LA ARENA PUEBLA 16 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
fifth defense. good match.

The main was said to be Rush’s best effort in a long time. The rest of the show doesn’t sound like much; the tag title match picked up in the third fall, the opening matches weren’t any good.

Nothing as exciting as the title matches on CMLL’s today show, but likely next week. Barbaro Cavernario and Niebla Roja continue to face off in the main event, headed to a singles match seven days from now if everything goes like normal. Marco, Diamante Azul, Euforia and Felino fit around them.

The semimain could be a pretty good match, with Stuka, Fuego and Guerrero Maya teaming up against Puma, Tiger and Hechicero in a match where everyone is pretty good.

Drone takes on Raziel in the lightning match. The women’s match tonight is Marcela, Princesa Sugehit, Lady Maravilla faces Tiffany, Amapola and Reina Isis in her first streamed match since May. (She was in Japan for REINA, then her return was one of the canceled shows.) The minis match is Fantasy & Angelito (first stream since July) taking on Pequeno Nitro & Pequeno Violencia. In between, Magnus, Astral, and Metatron are scheduled to face Nitro, Espanto and Canelo Casas, but it seems unlikely Canelo Casas will actually appear. The show streams on YouTube at 7:30pm.

LuchaWorld has this week’s Poster-Mania.

Lucha Memes announced it’s first show for it’s 11/20 Chairo 11 show

In other important Lucha Memes news: we now know what a La Huachimolera is.

Tonight is the first of the two 4DX airings of the Lucha Undergound finale, and they’re even going to do a pre-show for it on Facebook Live. This is probably just a red carpet entrance thing. (If you’re going, please be kinda enough to wait 24 hours to talk about anything that happens. If someone’s managed to go 15 months without getting the finale spoiled, let them have one more day)

Fly Warrior’s semifinal opponent Sunday in the Powerbomb.TV Independent Championship will be Jonathan Gresham, who attacked and unmasked Fly Warrior back at the first Powerbomb.TV show. This show also has x.


CMLL (MON) 10/23/2017 Arena Puebla
1) Black Tiger, Meyer, París vs Ares, King Jaguar, Sombra Diabólika
2) Astral, Espíritu Maligno, Robin vs Arkángel de la Muerte, El Malayo, Rey Apocalipsis
3) Blue Panther Jr., Drone, The Panther vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Misterioso Jr., Pólvora
4) Ángel de Oro, Diamante Azul, Niebla Roja vs Hechicero, Terrible, Vangellys
5) Carístico, Valiente, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Kráneo, Mephisto

A normal card, outside of Volador & Caristico being unfriendly partners again.

The Crash (WED) 11/15/2017 Palenque de la Feria, Tulancingo, Hidalgo
1) ? & ?? vs ??? & ????
2) Arkángel Divino & Black Boy vs Black Danger & Último Maldito
3) Jack Evans vs AeroboyBestia 666Mr. 450
4) Daga & The King vs Garza Jr. & Súper Crazy
5) Penta 0M & Rey Misterio Jr. vs La Máscara & Rush

We’re officially to the “holy crap, this is a lot of shows” portion: eleven shows from November 3 to November 15. I’m not sure that’s it, there seems to be another one popping in every day.

new lucha videos for the weekend of October 13th, 2017

Last week, my mega uploads were hit by takedown notices a few hours after they went up. I’m sure it’s an automatic deal, just assuming I wouldn’t bother to fight it (correct), but I’ll have to think about what to do if it happens again this week.

IWRG Zona XXI: 2017-10-10
taped 2017-09-27 @ Arena Naucalpan  – Mega/YouTube
1) Lili Dark vs Lady KatHija Del Pantera
2) Hijo Del Bombero, Príncipe Mexica, Voltar vs Avisman, Leroy, Skanda

CMLL Lucha Azteca: 2017-10-14
taped 2017-10-06 @ Arena México – Mega
1) Valiente vs Hechicero in a lightning match
2) Carístico, Diamante Azul, Marco Corleone vs Gran Guerrero, Shocker, Último Guerrero
3) Cavernario, Felino, Negro Casas vs Pierroth, Rush, Sam Adonis in a relevos increíbles match

CMLL Guadalajara: 2017-10-14
taped 2017-10-10 @ Arena Coliseo Guadalajara – Mega/YouTube
1) Star Jr., Starman, Stigma vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Difunto, Sangre Azteca
2) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Cuatrero, Forastero, Sansón
3) Dragón Lee, Mistico, Volador Jr. vs Gran Guerrero, Luciferno, Mephisto

IWRG Zona XXI: 2017-10-16
taped 2017-10-15 @ Arena Naucalpan – Mega/YouTube
1) Aramis, Black Terry, Hijo del Alebrije vs Hip Hop Man, Pleito Castillo, Psycho Kid
2) Black Dragón, Dinamic Black, Dragón Fly vs Diablo Jr., El Hijo del Diablo, Imposible
3) Bombero Infernal, Hijo De Dos Caras, Veneno vs Capo Del Norte, Capo Del Sur, Máscara Año 2000 Jr.

1991 Coahuila/Durango lineups added to the luchadb

April 28, 1991

I added 1990 lucha libre lineups, mostly from the cities Torreon and Gomez Palacio (but a few from Lerdo!), to the luchadb database over the last week. They’re integrated the different pages of this site, and they’re also just available here. This is a slow continuing project to mine the El Siglo de Torreon archive for lucha lineups and results. I didn’t expect to have this done this quick. There’s a lot of time between pitches.

year events
1985 150
1986 154
1987 152
1988 176
1989 188
1990 169
1991 174

It would’ve easily been the most events in a year if it had continued at the pace it was in summer. Lucha libre events nosedive sharply at the end of the year, going from six or more a week to one a week by December. It’s not just weather, as columns indicate people who were big attractions here just months prior (Hijo del Santo, Konnan) were not getting the same turnout. The timing matches up to when lucha libre airs starts in Mexico City. I’m not sure that’s total reason, because lucha libre had been listed on Torreon listings far before, but columns note that the local guys are having trouble competing with the national guys afterwards and that sure sounds like a TV issue.

The business downturn is also seen in Mexico City. By the end of the year, crowds are said to be down. Arena Mexico and Arena Coliseo half full on occasions, Pista under 1000.

This is the year where Flanagan & Super Punk (Ultimo Guerrero & Lucifierno) win the tag titles. They’re regulars in Arena Olimpico Laguna and showing up elsewhere. They also end up as opponents in a tournament for the vacant Laguna Light Heavyweight Championship, but no winner is ever mentioned. Results are nearly non-existent this year.

Local Issues

lucha TV/Strike Coverage

General History

Luchador of the Week type short bios/interviews


two CMLL title matches today, Coacalco 20th anniversary, IWRG, DTU

photo by Black Terry Jr.

indy (SUN) 10/15/2017 Coliseo Coacalco, Coacalco, Estado de México
1) Adriano & Siniestro DRAW León Tatuado & The King Fire
2) Genio Rojo b ForasteroDemonio BaltazarKaitoKarazuHazielRotterdamWallrusDinamic KingPoder GuerreroChicago RushArkonte [Trofeo 20 Aniversario]
3) Marcela, Princesa Sugehit, Sanely b Amapola, La Seductora, Reina Isis
4) Nitro & Sangre Azteca b Blue Panther Jr. & Virus and Iron Love & Judas el Traidor and Atomic Star & Jeque
Atomic Star replaced Tony Rivera. Panther & Virus could not get along. Nitro & Azteca beat Iron Love & Judas el Traidor.
5) El Golpeador, Shu el Guerrero, Súper Crazy DQ Euforia, Terrible, Último Guerrero
Shu el Guerrero replaced el Golpeador. Terrible replaced Dragon Rojo. Euforia fouled Super Crazy for the DQ. Shu wants a match with Ultimo
6) Magnífico b DagaEterno
Daga suffered a shoulder injury.
7) Juana La Loca L AramisImpulsoWotanArezBelialGoldenAeronixKalibusBlack Out [hair, mask]
Golden took Juana La Loca’s hair.

This appeared to be a packed house for the 20th Anniversary show.

IWRG (SUN) 10/15/2017 Arena Naucalpan [+LuchaTV, The Gladiatores]
1) Ángel Oriental b Skanda
2) Súper Brazo Jr. b Tackle
3) Demonio Infernal & Violencia Jr. b Adrenalina & Infierno
Inferno replaced Toxico.
4) Liderk, Rayan, Spartan, Spector b Chico Che, Leo, Rafy, Shaolin
5) Aramis, Black Terry, Hijo del Alebrije DQ Hip Hop Man, Pleito Castillo, Psycho Kid
Straight falls. Castillo hit the referee, causing the DQ.
6) Black Dragón, Dinamic Black, Dragón Fly b Diablo Jr., El Hijo del Diablo, Imposible
the Argentina duo (+ Psycho Kid) interfered
7) Capo Del Norte, Capo Del Sur, Máscara Año 2000 Jr. b Bombero Infernal, Hijo De Dos Caras, Veneno
Mascara Ano 2000 Jr. gave Dos two martinetes, unseen by the referee.

The Capos are likely to be regulars here under new names. I assumed they’d be revealed here, but they’re just using those temporary seeming names instead.

DTU (SUN) 10/15/2017 Centro Cívico de Tulpetlac, Ecatepec, Estado de México [+LuchaTV, DTU]
1) Maldad vs Gran TitánFuerza MarinaEstigma
2) Billy, Erwing, Hard Boy, Toto b Drolux, Heredero Azteca, Irving, The Black Jr.
3) Sombra Azteca & Tormenta De Fuego b Cobra Imperial & Infierno Negro
4) Jimmy b Drastik BoyCobreLokilloJoe Alonso
5) Camuflaje & Junior © b Corsario Negro Jr. & Drako [DTU NEXO]
1st defense. Money thrown in.
6) Moria b Hormiga © [DTU AI]
new champ. Hormiga falls on second defense.
7) Halloween © b Ovett [DTU CONSAGRADO]
Camuflaje & Junior helped Halloween keep the title.
8) Crazy King b CíclopeDr. Pólux Jr. [DTU CHAMP, #1 Contenders]
Crazy King beat Polux for the win.

Crazy King is owed a title shot now, but it’s not clear when. Could be going to GCW to get it, or maybe it’s the coming up on the December shows.

X-LAW keeps the Consagrado and Nexo titles – and maybe gets the Alto Impacto one? I have no idea if Moria is in X-LAW. Indie promotions, really all lucha promotions, could do a better job of making it clear who’s in which faction.  It’s impossible to keep track of these things when it’s not reenforced often.

Puebla has two championship matches today. Title changes are unlikely outside of Arena Mexico and neither of these matches jump out as likely changes, but they still should be interesting matches.

Rush challenges Marco Corleone for the CMLL heavyweight championship in the main event. Rush is going to be CMLL heavyweight championship someday if he sticks around CMLL long enough, but it should have a bigger lead up than this match is getting. More interesting than the outcome will be the effort; Marco’s tried to make his title matches interesting, but Rush is a wildcard when it comes to effort.

The other title match is Cuatrero & Sanson defending the Arena Coliseo Tag Team championship against Esfinge & Stigma. Marco losing the heavyweight championship now would be too soon, but the Dinamtias don’t really need these belts and could easily lose them at any time. The Arena Coliseo tag belts have tended to go to luchadors in the bottom half of cards; the NGD are quickly moving past that position and these titles. CMLL’s going to have to decide if they want to have them take a loss to someone below them, or if they’ll just vacate the belts. Esfinge & Stigma doesn’t seem like the pair to dethrone them and there’s never been an Arena Coliseo title change actually outside of Arena Coliseo, so I don’t think this is it.

Nothing pops out from the rest of the card. At least the Caristico, Volador and Mistico tecnico side is more interesting now after the Leyenda de Plata cibernetico. They’ll face Mephisto, Terrible and Rey Bucanero. The third match is a minis/locals mix schedule to have Asturiano, Electrico, Stukita versus Guerrero Espacial, Joker and Mercurio, but Stukita hasn’t been around when scheduled of late. The opener is two locals 2v2 matches. The show will air at 9pm CT.

Zona Ruda moves from UTDN to TDN in Mexico starting today. UTDN is the channel that’s also been repeating AAA thru the week, but it looks like both are moving to TDN. These seem like similar channels under the same umbrella so I’m not sure there’s that much difference, but more TDN programming in Mexico seem to make it in to the US.

The Crash says they’ll debut in Ecatepec on 12/03.

La Parka talks up his rivalry with Dave the Clown.

I liked this Super Junior Tag Team tournament preview.


CMLL (SUN) 10/22/2017 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara
1) Mr. Ángel vs Paymon
2) Avispón Negro Jr. & Tigre Blanco vs Owen & Stress
3) Capitán Cobra & El Divino vs Carlo Roggi & Mr. Apolo
4) Mágico & Neutrón vs El Chakal & Guerrero de la Muerte
5) Nautilius & Omar Brunetti vs Maléfico & Star Black and Explosivo & Ráfaga and Joker & Vaquero Jr. [Relevos Increíbles]

One of these teams probably won’t get along.

CMLL to adds much needed 20th championship, The Crash/DTU show on 11/30

photo by CMLL

CMLL (SAT) 10/14/2017 Arena Coliseo [CMLL]
1) Angelito & Fantasy b Pequeño Olímpico & Pequeño Violencia
2) Camorra, Hijo del Signo, Metálico b Magia Blanca, Príncipe Diamante, Starman
3) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., Drone b Olímpico, Pólvora, Sangre Azteca
Sangre Azteca replaced Dragon Rojo on Tuesday. Olimpico replaced Misterioso on Thursday.
4) Hechicero, Negro Casas, Shocker b Ángel de Oro, Soberano Jr., Valiente
5) Niebla Roja © b Rey Bucanero [CMLL LH]
Angel de Oro & Coyote were the seconds. Coyote appeared to interfere near the end of the match, but Niebla Roja still won for his first defense

CMLL (SUN) 10/15/2017 Arena México [CMLL]
1) Príncipe Diamante & Sensei b Cholo & Espanto Jr.
2) Akuma, Hijo del Signo, Warrior Steel b Flyer, Magnus, Robin
Hijo del Signo replaced Canelo Casas (who’s been listed for matches for weeks and never appears in them.) New trio Flyer/Magnus/Robin immediately lose.
3) Fuego, Guerrero Maya Jr., The Panther b Disturbio, Universo 2000 Jr., Virus
fans who donated in the food drive were honored after the third match.
4) Hechicero, Sam Adonis, Shocker b Niebla Roja, Rey Cometa, Soberano Jr.
Sam Adonis replaced Vangellys.
5) Carístico, Valiente, Volador Jr. b Cavernario, Mephisto, Último Guerrero
Caristico & Volador could not get along leading into their main event next week, but they still won.

Bits from Friday usually don’t show up on other days, but Caristico & Volador have seemed not to like each other all that much since Caristico came back so it’s probably really natural for them to work that into matches.

Canelo Casas hasn’t wrestled in Arena Mexico since August 27th. He hasn’t shown up elsewhere either, so it’s probably more an injury than CMLL or Canelo giving up on each other.

LuchaWorld has their latest news update, including recaps of interviews with Mil Mascaras responding to Alberto, and Caristico & Volador after the Leyenda de Plata match.

This week’s AAA episode is up. It’s the second half of the Hard Rock show. Heroes Inmortales should start airing next week.

Lucha Underground posted a lot of promos: Dario Cueto with a state of the LU union (timely!), Mil Muertes talking about Cage & Crane, and Prince Puma talking about Johnny Mundo.  The Dario bit ends with a mystery person showing up off screen; it may just be an in joke, but it comes off as a tease.

A second showing up of the Lucha Underground finale in the FDX theater will take place on Wednesday. My hunch is the people in charge were not expecting the amount of fans asking for tickets that they got. LA people will still turn out for this show.

RT has an article about exoticos. I can’t keep track if I’ve posted this one before or if all these articles sounds the same; I’ve definitely read about Miss Gaviota’s haircut stand before.

Sipse interviews Raul Vidal, who’s promoted events in Arena Vidal of Chetumal for 30 years.


IWRG (WED) 10/18/2017 Arena Naucalpan
1) Dranzer & Fly Tiger vs Power Bull & Skanda
2) Diosa Atenea & Lady Cat vs Dulce Luna & Lili Dark
3) Alas de Acero, Aramis, Shadow Boy vs Fly Star, Lunatic Xtreme, Toxin
4) Leo, Mike, Rafy, Teelo vs Hip Hop Man, La Mosca, Plettio Castilo, Psycho Kid
5) Eterno, Trauma I, Trauma II vs Arez, Centvrión, Séptimo Rayo [super libre]

Main event is a rematch of a really good match last week; a lot of this card is the same group coming again.

CMLL (SAT) 10/21/2017 Arena Coliseo
1) Acero & Aéreo vs Pequeño Nitro & Pequeño Universo 2000
2) Fiero, Magia Blanca, Príncipe Diamante vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Cancerbero, Metálico
3) Astral, Pegasso, Starman vs Disturbio, Sagrado, Virus
4) Blue Panther Jr. vs Vangellys [lightning]
5) Ángel de Oro, Niebla Roja, Valiente vs Ephesto, Felino, Luciferno
6) Diamante Azul, Marco Corleone, Mistico vs Euforia, Shocker, Último Guerrero

A show.

CMLL (SUN) 10/22/2017 Arena México
1) Bengala & Fiero vs Akuma & Inquisidor
2) Eléctrico, Stukita, Último Dragóncito vs Mercurio, Pequeño Olímpico, Pierrothito
3) Drone, Fuego, Stigma vs Puma, Sagrado, Tiger
4) Ángel de Oro, Marco Corleone, Mistico vs Ephesto, Hechicero, Luciferno
5) Rush vs ShockerTerribleDiamante AzulStuka Jr.Gran GuerreroBlue Panther Jr.EuforiaVangellysKráneoPierrothCuatrero [MEX HEAVY]
Vacant title. Last champion was Hector Garza.

Yes, CMLL looked around and decided the one thing was missing was a second heavyweight championship.

The national heavyweight championship was a EMLL/CMLL based title until 1994, when Pierroth (not this one) jumped to AAA with it. AAA used it as one of their titles until they created their own AAA heavyweight championship in 2007. Charly Manson was heavyweight champion at the time and the idea was to unify all the other belts out of existence. Only, Charly’s loss came to Mesias, Mesias is Puerto Rician and not eligible to win the Mexico champions, and Charly just kept the belt in a closet somewhere for a couple years until he joined Perros del Mal. The belt went to X-Fly, then Garza, then Garza himself went back to AAA, putting this belt back on the shelf. After Hector died in 2013 and nothing was said about the future of the heavyweight title, I assumed it’s history was closed. The national titles are supposed to be managed by the Mexico City commission, but they’ve kept their hands off of them, and all the non-CMLL belts (Mini, Featherweight, Middleweight, Cruiserweight, Tag Team, Atomico, Women’s Tag) have just been allowed to go away. I’m really curious as to how and why this heavyweight championship ended up back in CMLL.

I under the WHY it happened: CMLL and their luchadors believing holding a championship, any championship makes the holder an important star. There seems to be ample evidence to contray – check out Saturday’s Coliseo attendance – but reality just gets in the way. Diamante Azul has had the Occidente heavyweight belt forever just so he can have a belt. He’d be my guess to get this belt as an upgrade, one they might actually have him defend.

The Crash (THU) 11/30/2017 Arena Aficion

1) Astrolux, Látigo, Torito Negro vs Kastigador, Toto, Vengador
2) Cíclope & Miedo Extremo vs Pegazus & Tiago and Cobre & Jimmy
3) Flamita & Willie Mack vs Bestia 666 & Drastik Boy
4) Daga & The King vs Black Terry & Solar I
5) Penta Zero M vs RushGarza Jr.La Máscara

The Crash cards don’t stop. This is a co-promotion with DTU, with their guys partoof the card. Black Terry & Solar vs Daga & The King (Rey Fenix) is a near rematch of a match in TJ earlier this year.

Caristico/Volador in Leyenda de Plata, LU


CMLL (FRI) 10/13/2017 Arena México [CMLL, Ovacionesthecubsfan]
1) Drone & Esfinge b Cancerbero & Raziel LUCHA LIBRE VIERNES ESPECTACULAR DE ARENA MEXICO 13 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 FUNCION COMPLETA (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
13:16. Tecnicos took 1/3.
2) Ángel de Oro, Niebla Roja, Stuka Jr. b Gran Guerrero, Luciferno, Rey Bucanero LUCHA LIBRE VIERNES ESPECTACULAR DE ARENA MEXICO 13 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 FUNCION COMPLETA (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
13:32. Tecnicos took 13.
Valiente submitted Pierroth in 6:20.
4) Euforia, Rush, Último Guerrero b Diamante Azul, Kráneo, Marco Corleone [Relevos IncreíblesLUCHA LIBRE VIERNES ESPECTACULAR DE ARENA MEXICO 13 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 FUNCION COMPLETA (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
7:39. Rush’s team won cleanly, taking falls 1/3
5) Carístico b MephistoMisticoCavernarioVolador Jr.Negro CasasDragón LeeSansónSoberano Jr.ForasteroGuerrero Maya Jr.VirusTitánPumaThe PantherTiger [Leyenda de PlataLUCHA LIBRE VIERNES ESPECTACULAR DE ARENA MEXICO 13 DE OCTUBRE DEL 2017 FUNCION COMPLETA (posted by VideosOficialesCMLL)
37:43. A battle royal set the teams as Mistico, Cavernario, Volador Jr., Sansón, Forastero, Virus, Titán, The Panther vs Carístico, Mephisto, Negro Casas, Tiger, Dragón Lee, Soberano Jr., Puma, and Guerrero Maya. Elimination order went Puma (Sanson), The Panther (Soberano), Tiger (Forastero), Virus (Dragon Lee), Guerrero Maya (Titan), Forastero (Mephisto), Titan (Negro Casas), Negro Casas (Barbaro Cavernario), Mephisto (Volador), Dragon Lee (Sanson), Barbaro Cavernario (Soberano), Soberano & Mistico pinned at the same time (by Sanson), and Sanson (Caristico). That left Caristico & Volador as the final for next week.

Main event was fun if sloppy. Everything else was fine or Pierroth. Attendance seemed down, and next will be an interesting test to see if a marquee match with Caristico & Volador can get fans to turn out again or if it’s still too soon.

CMLL announced the Dia de los Muertos shows will take place on 11/03 (Friday), 11/05 (Sunday) and 11/07 (Tuesday). CMLL’s tended to to have big matches on those dates, though nothing’s a guarantee with them. Negro Casas/Sam Adonis would fit for 11/03. The Sunday Muertos show often ends up streamed. There is likely to be a press conference to talk about all of this on this Wednesday or the next.

Okumura got a positive report on his neck while in Japan, so he’s close to returning.

The headline of this article says Lucha Underground has secured funding for a fourth season. The actual body of the article doesn’t say nearly as much. It’s an interview with Paul London (he and Marty are working a show in Colorado today), and London just says the things everyone’s discussed: he’s heard LU may make cutbacks, he thinks they’ll be fine as long as the in-ring portion is still there, he knows some of the wrestlers may not want to come back because the hiatus has been so long.  It’s all less exciting than it reads.

I’ve said this before, and the people who need to hear it are not reading this website so I’m not sure why I’m bothering, but I’ll write it again: everyone would love a Lucha Underground decision by the time the show goes off the air. There’s 0% guarantee there will be one. It’s not any sort of deadline for El Rey; they’ll still have time to decide, and it’s in everyone’s interest to drag this out until the other side gives them the deal they want. And even if El Rey says no, MGM & LU can still try to shop around the show to other networks, something they’re contractually not allowed to try until El Rey’s window passes. Wednesday is important because it’s the last day episode they have taped and because it starts the countdown clock for out of contract wrestlers to go elsewhere – they may get some resolution on their careers, and we may get some resolution on the onscreen stories, but the business of LU is not sure to be resolved by Wednesday.

(aside 1: The recent MMM show has a good idea of when that El Rey deadline might actually be, but you’re going to have to listen to find out yourself.)

(aside 2: There are important developments and plots coming to an end on this week’s episode. I do also expect a cliffhanger or three that’s supposed to be resolved in season 4, and I do not think there’s “series finale” version of the episode somewhere. There was always a good chance of this lingering uncertainty to end season 3, and MGM & LU would be harming themselves if they finished off everything on a show they’re still trying to sell to other networks.)

Elegido & Gronda are listed both on a card with people with quit AAA and an AAA spot show challenging for the tag titles. They must have permission to work wherever they want since AAA isn’t using them.

Segunda Caida reviews El Brazo vs Brazo de Plata vs Brazo de Oro.

Cross Arm Breaker reviews Niebla Roja vs Gran Guerrero.


CMLL (FRI) 10/20/2017 Arena México
1) Oro Jr. & Star Jr. vs Disturbio & Sangre Azteca
2) Guerrero Maya Jr., Pegasso, Rey Cometa vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Misterioso Jr., Pólvora
3) Ángel de Oro, Niebla Roja, Soberano Jr. vs Cuatrero, Forastero, Sansón
4) Pierroth, Rush, Sam Adonis vs Negro Casas, Rey Bucanero, Terrible
5) Diamante Azul, Mistico, Valiente vs Gran Guerrero, Mephisto, Último Guerrero
6) Carístico vs Volador Jr. [Leyenda de Plata]

Outside of the main event, the only feud here is Sam Adonis/Negro Casas. They could always make something else up for 11/03, but that seems like the most likely option. NGD continue to ascend.

The Crash (THU) 11/09/2017 Deportivo Martin Alarcon Hisojo, Metepec, Estado de México
1) Astrolux & Tiago vs Látigo & Último Maldito
2) Keyra vs Christi Jaynes vs Lacey Lane
3) Arkángel Divino, Black Boy, Black Danger vs Alas de Acero, Rencor Negro, Sangre Felina
4) M-ximo & Último Ninja vs Demus 3:16 & Hijo de Pirata Morganand Black Taurus & Pierroth
5) Daga, Jack Evans, Máscarita Dorada vs Flip Gordon, Laredo Kid, Sammy Guevara
6) Flamita, The King, Willie Mack vs Bestia 666, Keith Lee, Mr. 450
8) Penta 0M & Rey Mysterio 619 vs La Máscara & Rush and Brian Cage & Carlito

As with AAA, the “Toluca” show is taking place in Metepec, about 20 minutes out of town. I wonder if there’s some issue with running the main Toluca building following the rehabilitation of it earlier this year; it’s been used for lucha, but not nearly as often.

This fits with the other shows on this tour. 5/6 could be pretty good. Lacey Lane only shows up on this card; she’s a Florida Dudley Boyz trainee who had a WWE tryout earlier this year.

The Crash (MON) 11/13/2017 Gimnasio 400 Deportiva Sur, Salamanca, Guanajuato
1) Látigo vs Astrolux
2) Crazy Latino, Pegazus, Tiago vs Dr. Pólux Jr., Imposible, Murciélago Plateado
3) Arkángel Divino, Black Boy, Black Danger, Último Maldito vs Bandido (Indie), Diamante (Indie), Emperador Azteca (Indie), Golden Magic
4) Carlito & Willie Mack vs Brian Cage & Mr. 450
5) Penta Zero M & The King vs La Máscara & Rush and Bestia 666 & Garza Jr.

This is a co-promotion with local group Generacion 21, with a lot of their usual wrestlers in 2/3.