Why Old Luchadores Should Not Be Taking Wacky US Indy Moves

Rob posted this over on luchaworld, but if you haven’t seen it yet – this is Lizmark and Terrible

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04/02: Coliseo


CMLL (SUN) 04/01 Arena Coliseo [ovaciones]
1) Calígula & Méssala b Rayo Tapatío I & Rayo Tapatío II
2) Mini Damian 666, Mini Halloween, Mini Mr. Aguila b Mini Olímpico, Tzuki, Último Dragoncito
3) Leono, Stuka Jr., Virus DQ Dr. X, Jeque, Loco Max
4) Heavy Metal, Máscara Sagrada, Shocker b Máscara Año 2000, Misterioso II, Olímpico
5) Atlantis, LA Park, Último Guerrero b Damián 666, el Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Halloween

Main event was rudo/rudo. It came down to Perro/Ultimo, Perro went for a foul, Ultimo blocked that, so Perro yanked his mask and cradled him for the win. Jeque yanked Stuka’ mask, and Stuka wants a mask match.

AAA (SUN) 04/01 Plaza de Toros, Cuauhtemoc Lineup [rfc]
1) Panterita del Ring II & Virtual X b Cianuro & Euforia
2) Guerrero Negro Jr., Hijo de Mocho Cota, Rey Infernal b Angel Mortal, Gallego, Mr. Condor
3) Mascarita Divina & Mini Path Finder b Jerryto Estrada & Mini Chessman
4) Psicosis II, Sangre Chicana, Silver Cat b Alan, Decnnis, el Angel
5) Alebrije, Aventurero, Tinieblas Jr. DQ Antifaz, Hator, Pimpinela Escarlata

Aventurero turned on his teammates in the main event.

indy (THU) 03/29 Centro de Convenciones, Mina [Payable XXX @ box y lucha foro]
1) Rocker Tri & Yago b Cuervo Azul & Misterio
2) La Chona & Samuray b Comando Gama & Gamos el Centauro
3) Azhor & Guerrero Blanco b Johnny Reyna & Krishan [PYCV TAG]
4) Cerebro Negro & Dr. Cerebro b Freelance & Suicida
5) El Hijo Del Santo & Mascara Sagrada b Blue Demon Jr. & Veneno

This was one of those shows that had to be completely changed after the Santo/CMLL issues, hence the IWRG guys. After the main event, there were run-ins setting up a four way cage hair/mask match for 07/08: Santo vs Demon vs Veneno vs Dr. Cerebro.

Miunto Uno catches up with former stars of Los Titantes en el Ring.

Super Luchas #206 has Tiffany, Universo and RVD (an odd trio)
Box Y Lucha #2812 has Mistico with his trophy, and a story about Intocable being annoyed with AAA
LUCHAS 2000 #362 has Universo bald, and the new CMLL debuts among other things.

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CMLL on FSE #34

taped 03/25

Well…that was more effort than it was worth.

Stuka doesn’t look good doing anything that’s not his moves, which is a bad side. Jeque was completely forgettable. They whole feud was based on a low blow, which means…everyone should be feuding with everyone.

It wasn’t a disaster, it just wasn’t any good. If someone told me CMLL had wanted to do a Jeque/Stuka feud and changed their mind after this match, I’d believe it.

Main event was probably better off only airing one fall. Nothing good could come of it.

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04/01: Skayde vs Mistico, IWRG, FSE, Accion

In the main event of a show at Arena El Cortijo on Saturday (03/31), Mistico beat Skayde for his mask. Skayde was revealed to be Jorge Rivera Serrano. This is Mistico’s third mask win, all since beating Black Warrior last September.

This match and Skayde’s mask loss came as a surprise – there was no known build up, this isn’t Skayde’s home arena, and this is not a arena of any note. In the days leading up to it, there was an ongoing discussion on box y lucha’s foro wondering if it might be a typo, a fraud, or some other bit of confusion, but the match did take place as advertised. It is highly unlikely that it was taped.

Skayde’s competed as Jorge Rivera on a few of the Toryumon Mexico shows. He did not wrestle on the last one, though according to nuclear jackelope on DVDMB, Skayde was running the locker room for that show. nuclear jackalope’s post indicates this is likely Skayde’s choice and there’s something going on here that we haven’t been made aware of yet. (Health issue? That’d be my guess.)

IWRG (THU) 03/29 Arena Naucalpan
1) Puma King b Golem
2) Bacteria & Kid Tiger b Narcosatanico I & Narcosatanico II
3) Black Terry, Fantasma de la Ópera, Supremo Jr. b Esfinge, Fabian el Gitano, Solar I
4) Masada, Ohara, Shigeo Okumura b Felino, Kai, Yamato
5) Bestia Salvaje, Hijo de Cien Caras, Máscara Año 2000 b Dos Caras Jr., El Hijo del Solitario, Negro Navarro

Main event tecnico team fell apart, with Solitario accidentally getting hit by his teammates, and opting to hit back for real. That didn’t help. Okumura cheated to win the semimain.


These are the matches that aired
03/25 Coliseo: Jeque, Ohara, Shigeo Okumura b Metro, Stuka Jr., Tony Rivera
03/25 Coliseo: Damián 666, Halloween, Mr. Águila b Leono, Máscara Sagrada, Mictlan

HOWEVER, it was a 0:30 show. Sometime before 10 AM today*, they changed the schedule, adding a 30 more to Italian Soccer (which has a late night replay) and just ripping it out of CMLL lucha (which does NOT have a late night replay.)

CMLL must’ve known this in advance, because there was a lot more surgical editing than usual. Instead of just skipping segments like usual (like in the recaps I’ve been putting up, actually), they re-did the show to make it fit better. The stand up intro was cut completely, most of “En Casa De Black Warrior” was cut, and the commercial bumpers were mostly gone. As a result, they were able to air all of the opener (no breaks between falls, all in one long segment) and the third fall of the main event.

This is much improved over the old way of doing it. I’d prefer a timeslot (or timeslots) where no editing is done, but if it has to a be a half hour, this is good.


CMLL: Universo vs Marco! Universo gets a fail with a camel clutch. Universo gets a plancha, Marco does Air Italia. Cien Caras argues with a ref about something (Dr. Morales talks about a foul – we don’t see it) and Marco small packages Universo for the win – with the ropes, with Rey helping him hold onto the ropes. Not so clean, though I suppose that’s the best you can hope for with Universo.

AAA: Hellbrothers vs Mesias/Cuervo/Ozz (no location listed). We get entrances. Mesias is looking like a normal guy – no visible burn marks, at any rate. He heals good. Cibernetico puts his hands on Konnan’s wheelchair, and Konnan sprays him in the face with some white powder. Mesias spears Cibernetico into a table, though Ciebrentico falls down short and he doesn’t really go thru it, just into it. Some point later, Pepe Casas awards Cibernetico the match.

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GdR #71

taped 03/25, 03/23

The main event was just fifteen minutes of fun. Everyone was working hard, no goofery just to kill clock, Volador’s big moves all looked superb, the rudos looked like a well oiled killing machine You’re not going to get a better random trios match in CMLL 2007 than this.

Women’s trios was just okay. I’m sure, if we had a meaningful match and she was showcased at all, Mima Shimoda would have a good match, but we haven’t really seen much of it in these run of the mill trios matches. Rosa Negra looked better here.

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04/27 AAA TV Taping Lineup

If that’s a typo, it’s news to me. AAA posted this on Friday. I don’t know why there’s a 26 day gap between announced tapings. (“They’re touring the US”, ha ha ha.)

previous: 04/01, 04/15, 04/27

AAA (FRI) 04/27 Polideportivo de la Universidad Autonoma del Edo, Hidalgo Lineup
1) Toxico, Ghefar, Espantapajaros I vs Aero Star, Nemesis AAA, Orion
2) Alan Stone, Zumbido vs Histeria, Antifaz vs Laredo Kid, Rey Cometa
3) Joe Lider, Psicosis II, Crazy Boy vs Cuervo, Scoria, Ozz
4) Zorro, Fuerza Guerrera, Juventued Guerrera, Pirata Morgan vs Octagon, Mr. Niebla, Alebrije, Scorpio Jr. [relevos incredible]
5) Cibernetico vs La Parka Jr. ??? vs Elegdio vs Chessman vs Mesias vs Abismo Negro [cage]

Air Date
Mex: 05/05
US: 05/26

The problem with announcing lineups this far in advance is it gives away nothing much’s going to happen between now and then. I can take the next month off.

Actually, Abismo’s presence in the main event is interesting. It may simply be sticking the lead Viper in there to have a Viper in the main event, but with Nicho gone, the Legion could always use more regulars. They could do worse than making the Foreign Legion and the Vipers allies.

Semimain is 2 tecnicos/2 rudos on each side. Looks like we’re still working with Octagon/Juvi vs Fuerza/Pirata and Alebrije/Scorpio. Zorro isn’t turning (yet).

I hope this Mexican Powers vs Dark Family match means, at some point in April, one of these sides defended their belts.

Next Tapings
– 05/06 Oaxaca
– 05/12 Apizaco, Tlaxcala
– 05/20 Morelia
– 05/26 Minatitlan, Veracruz
– 05/30 San Luis Potosi


03/30: Dos Leyendas results, lineups, GdR


CMLL (FRI) 03/30 Arena Mexico [ova, Galeno del Mal @ box y lucha, SuperLuchas, ESTO]
1) Dark Angel, Lady Apache, Marcela b Amapola, Hiroka, Mima Shimoda
2) Black Warrior, Misterioso II, Tarzan Boy b Leono, Sagrado, Volador Jr.
3) Atlantis, Olímpico, Sangre Azteca b Damián 666, Halloween, Mr. Águila
4) Dos Caras Jr., Lizmark Jr., Rey Bucanero b Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto
5) Místico & Último Guerrero b el Hijo del Perro Aguayo & Héctor Garza [ri]
6) Marco Corelone b Universo 2000 [hair]

Ovaciones reports an attendance of over 12,000. If that’s right, this lineup has to be considered a success; I wouldn’t have guessed they would do over 10,000.

Before the main event, they honored Salvador Lutteroth and Huracan Ramirez, with members of their families accepted plaques. Among the family members for Huracan Ramirez was Axxel, which was surely the point of the exercise. He wasn’t announced as coming in, but you’ll see a little bit lower than others are joining next week.

Main event had Cien Caras cheating for Universo (till Cien got ejected) and Bucanero cheating for Corelone. Universo didn’t want to take the hair cut, so Rey attacked him post match to settle him down. This was a bad match, but of course it would be. The rest of the card was said to be about what you’d expect – ESTO and others thought it was better than expected.

First fall of the semimain was Perro fouling Mistico and getting caught, second fall was Ultimo fouling Hector and not getting caught.

Tecnicos won in the fourth match, despite Lizmark going rudo. From reading the non-CMLL.com recaps, Lizmark Jr. might have wrestled the match as a normal tecnico, and just announced after the match that was it for him being a tecnico.

ESTO has an article about Huracan Ramirez, Salvador Lutteroth and past Dos Leyendas main events.

Next week’s cards:

CMLL (TUE) 04/03 Arena Coliseo Lineup
1) Bracito de Oro, Celestial vs Sombrita, Fire
2) Tigre Blanco, Tigre Metalico, Danger vs Super Comando, Artillero, Hooligan
3) Leono, Fabian el Gitano, Satanico vs Loco Max, Euforia, Noseferatu
4) Maximo, Virus, Mictlan vs Mephisto, Ephesto, Misterioso II
5) Shocker, Marco Corelone, Alex Koslov vs Atlantis, Ultimo Guerrero, Sangre Azteca

Euforia and Noseferatu are (supposedly) new wrestlers. I believe Celestial is the opening match worker for IWRG, and this would also be his debut.

CMLL (FRI) 04/06 Arena Mexico Lineup
1) Super Nova, Flash vs Ramstein, Apocalipsis
2) La Mascara, Maximo, Valiente vs Okumura, Ohara, Goto
3) Atlantis, Tarzan Boy, Sangre Azteca vs Dr. Wagner Jr., Rayo de Jalisco, Alex Koslov
4) Mistico, Sagrado, Marco Corelone vs Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Blue Demon Jr., Mr. Aguila
5) Ultimo Guerrero vs Hector Garza

Main event makes sense based off yesterday’s finish. Blue Jr. and Rayo Jr. are surprises (guess Rayo shouldn’t have given it away months ago). Apparently, Blue Demon Jr. is still a Perro! Rayo teaming up with Wagner is just wrong.

This is the show that probably won’t make TV, because it’ll be a PPV reair week. Which makes me wonder why they started Ray and Demon this week – they’re here to look relevant and get on TV, and they won’t be this week. They must be around for a while.

CMLL (SUN) 04/08 Arena Coliseo Lineup
1) Espiritu Maligno, Karissma vs Vaquero, Carrona
2) Valiente, Super Nova vs Super Comando, Artillero
3) Virus, Flash, Leono vs Loco Max, Dr. X, Nitro
4) La Mascara, Volador Jr., Maximo vs Damian 666, Halloween, Mr. Aguila
5) Shocker, Marco Corelone, Alex Koslov vs Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Hector Garza, Terrible

It’s like they couldn’t decide which tag match to use as the opener, so they just are going to run them both. Odd.

CMLL (WED) 03/28 Centro de Convenciones, Madreo [anto_141286 @ box y lucha]
1) Dark Angel & Lady Apache b Amapola & Princesa Sujei
2) Stuka Jr. b Danger, Valiente, Virus, Super Nova, Leono
3) La Máscara, Máximo, Volador Jr. b Loco Ray, Sangre Azteca, Skandalo
4) Alex Koslov, Brazo de Platino, Marco Corelone b Ephesto, Mephisto, Misterioso II
5) Dr. Wagner Jr. & Místico DQ Averno & Black Warrior

No tag team title match, Negro didn’t make the show.

GdR has
03/25 Coliseo: Luna Magica, Marcela, Princesa Blanca b Medussa, Mima Shimoda, Rosa Negra
03/23 Mexico: Alex Koslov, Rey Bucanero, Volador Jr. b Ephesto, Mephisto, Misterioso II
Black Warrior’s house.

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CMLL on FSE #9 (10/08/06)

(taped 10/01/06)

A full hour! Imagine that.

As I note in the recap, this was Warrior’s first (TV) match without the mask, and this is the first time I’ve seen Pantera wrestle without the mask. You could not give more opposite impressions – Warrior has an aura, Pantera is just a guy in cat pants.

Pantera seemed like as good worker as always, but it loses something when he just looks like a guy off the street. He didn’t communicate with his facial expressions; he seemed the same as he would if he was doing this in an empty arena as a training exercise.

Warrior did a great job of adapting to his new set up right away – he had the hair style planned, and he’s been working hard on tinkering and adjusting his look. As I write this, we’re about 9 months out from when he lost his mask, and he’s stopped fighting Mistico every show (though there’s still a lot of that), yet he still seems at that same star level (or the segunda on Dos Leyendas wouldn’t have been a big surprise). I think figuring out a unique star look has played a big part in his success. He deserves credit for seizing on his opportunity.

Opener was fun – Sangre, Virus, and pants ripping can do that. Main event would’ve been remembered fonder if it was seen before the three straight months of matches with similar finishes, instead of after. We’ve had enough of a break from it, I’m no longer immediately tuning out when Warrior and Mistico are in the same ring, so that’s progress.

There will be no recap for #10 – it’s not on my DVDs.

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Early Dos Leyendas Results

CMLL (FRI) 03/30 Arena Mexico [cmll]
1) Dark Angel, Lady Apache, Marcela ?? Amapola, Hiroka, Mima Shimoda
2) Leono, Sagrado, Volador Jr. ?? Black Warrior, Misterioso II, Tarzan Boy
3) Atlantis, Olímpico, Sangre Azteca ?? Damián 666, Halloween, Mr. Águila
4) Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto b Dos Caras Jr., Lizmark Jr., Rey Bucanero
5) Místico & Último Guerrero b el Hijo del Perro Aguayo & Héctor Garza [ri]
6) Marco Corelone b Universo 2000 [hair]

Lizmark Jr. turned on his partners. Mistico and Ultimo wore matching outfits and won in straight falls. Marco won.

03/30 CMLL Dos Leyendas Preview

CMLL (FRI) 03/30 Arena Mexico
1) Dark Angel, Lady Apache, Marcela vs Amapola, Hiroka, Mima Shimoda
2) Leono, Sagrado, Volador Jr. vs Black Warrior, Misterioso II, Tarzan Boy
3) Atlantis, Olímpico, Sangre Azteca vs Damián 666, Halloween, Mr. Águila
4) Dos Caras Jr., Lizmark Jr., Rey Bucanero vs Averno, Ephesto, Mephisto
5) Místico & Último Guerrero vs el Hijo del Perro Aguayo & Héctor Garza [ri]
6) Marco Corelone vs Universo 2000 [hair]

News(-ish) Previews
La Presna
– Ovaciones, of course.

In the ESTO interview, Universo says he has no idea if his brothers will interfere in the main event, because we they talk, lucha libre never comes up. I have no trouble believing they never talk about lucha. (And I’m sure they’ll run in.)

If Marco were to lose his hair, wouldn’t that be a fraud? When some random guy in some random promotion loses his hair twice in such a short time, I’d think it’s a pretty big rip off of the fans and a sign of some quite bad business practices. This is exactly what CMLL is proposing with this lineup – You May Get Ripped Off.

You know, I know, the rudo bellringer knows, Marco’s winning this match and he would be winning this match even if hadn’t just lost his hair. I still think even suggesting the possibility of a fraud is a bad idea, and Universo’s hair isn’t even close to be worth it.

My theory is CMLL got a bind. They were planning on doing Universo/Marco for hair at some point during this year, but not this soon. However, when they started getting close to Mistico/Perro, they realized they didn’t have a finish because of Mistico’s uncertain status, and had to do something else.

The actual problem is the “something else” – they’ve not really bothered to build up feuds in the last three months, and with Perro/Mistico out, the only possible thing that could main event was Marco/Universo, because those are the only two big feuds in the entire promotion. Park/Wagner got attention for about a week or two, and then died again (maybe the suspension was to cover another falling out?) They’re starting to do something with Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto but that’s not near far along now and I’m not sure them vs the Perros for the trios is a big main event. The feud they seem to be working hardest is El Hijo del Santo vs Paco Alonso, but that’s not going to have a good payoff for anyone.

CMLL, at least at the main event level, has been going downhill since Black Warrior yanked off Mistico’s mask one too many times after the mask match. This PPV lineup is lame. They skipped the major New Year card entirely, because they never left Arena Mexico (but still did Arena Coliseo cards.) The Year End PPV was lame. Even the Annviersary show was just okay. There’s a spark missing, a good feud that’s memorable some way, and CMLL hasn’t seemed to have in six months. Maybe getting pass this card and this feud will open up some new, better possibilities.

Match by Match:

1: 7-8 minute women’s opener to get the crowd (what of it in the building) going. I tend to overbook in these previews and would look for something like Mima beating Lady Apache to start the next title feud, but it’s a lot more likely the tecnicas win just to start the show on a happy note.

2: First of three straight matches which seem to exist just to get people onto the show. Will Tarzan Boy show? I’d figure the rudos take this one, just because as odd as it is for Black Warrior to be a segunda, it’d be too odd for him to be losing in a segunda.

3: The very loose idea here is Sangre’s contiyning tryout with the major league team. Guerreros didn’t win last week, so they gotta this week, or this bit is going nowhere.

4: Averno and company should keep rolling, and maybe they’ll start playing out a Lizmark Jr. turn in the ring, as opposed to the magazines. If they’re doing Perros/Triad of Terror down the road, they should’ve switched them to face off in these matches and had the Guerreros face the tecnicos. I think it would’ve worked better.

5: Mistico & Ultimo teaming for the first time ever is supposed to be a make good for not doing the hair/mask match, but I don’t know if it works out that way – you’re just waiting for something to go wrong with them, Ultimo to decide he dislikes Mistico more than the Perros at the moment, and foul him or pull of his mask or something. Maybe it won’t even happen till after the match, but I can’t see them playing the straight and the point is for them not to play is straight. This match is all about what angle they do, and not much about the finish.

6: Yea, Marco’s going over, but is he going to do it clean? This might turn into an AAA match with the runins (and counter runins.) If Marco to be the big new star, he ought to be getting a clean win here, but I doubt it’ll happen.

When this lineup was announced, someone said they were planning to go to the beach this weekend instead of going to the show. That’s the wise move – if I had that choice, I’d do that too. (Though it’s raining and in the 50s right now, so that may not work as well here.) If I was in Mexico, since it’s going to be on TV anyway, and it’s almost a normal TV card but the hair stip (and an extra “star” match), I doubt I’d buy it on PPV.

If I spot some live results on a message board, I’ll post them tonight, but I’m not going to look that hard. There’s nothing here that I can’t wait till the morning to find out about.

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