No Coliseo results
Toryumon Mexico (SUN) 08/10 Arena Coliseo [Gladiatores]
1) Disturbio & Mayiguara b Trauma I & Trauma II
2) Bam Bam & Pequeno Ninja b Pequeño Damian 666 & Pequeño Halloween
3) Alex Koslov, Marco Corelone, Último Dragón b Loco Max, Negro Navarro, Ohara [Copa Suzuki, torneo, semifinal]
4) Atlantis, Rey Bucanero, Último Guerrero b Arkangel de la Muerte, Nitro, Skandalo [semifinal, Copa Suzuki, torneo]
5) Luna Mágica & Marcela b Hiroka & Mima Shimoda
6) Alex Koslov, Marco Corelone, Último Dragón b Atlantis, Rey Bucanero, Último Guerrero [Copa Suzuki, final, torneo]
Main event had UG (& Atlantis) vs Ultimo Dragon build. Tecnicos won a bike.
IWRG (SUN) 08/10 Arena Naucalpan [the Gladiatores]
1) Eragon & Heavy Boy b Eragon & Jack
2) Gemelo Fantastico I & Gemelo Fantastico II b Trauma I & Trauma II
3) La Chola & Rossy Moreno b Lady Rabbit & Linda Star
4) Oficial 911, Oficial AK47, Oficial Fierro b Aeroman, Fenix, Freelance
5) Multifacético, Super Astro, Ultramán Jr. b Fuerza Guerrera, Mascara Ano 2000 Jr., Monsther
6) Dr. Wagner Jr. & Rayo de Jalisco Jr. DQ Hijo del Cien Caras & Máscara Año 2000
Mascara Ano 2000 Jr. ran in to save the rudos from a certain loss. Despite the loss, the tecnicos in the fourth match want a title match.
Trauma I was mentioned as hurt after a Gemelo dive here. He was also mentioned hurt after taking the German Suplex finish on the Toryumon show, which took place earlier in the day.
CMLL held their opening press conference in Spain either Tuesday or Wednesday; lots of articles started to pop up yesterday afternoon about it. They’ll be handing out programs at the shows to explain who the wrestlers and what the moves are. If they have extras, I know some announcers who could use a copy. Tigre Hispano is getting a lot of attention, because he was actual born in Spain before moving to Mexico at 13. Loco Max vowed the streets of Spain will fill with tecncio’s blood. Maybe the blood ban doesn’t carry over an ocean.
Weird: There’s a post on Lo Mejor de Lucha Libre inviting want to be AAA wrestlers to come try out at Arena Solidaridad. Shouldn’t someone in AAA know which guys they’d like to get? You usually don’t have to put up an d to get people who are interested, either.
AAA posted news about Octagoncito vs Mini Kenzo, Silver King’s return, Ricky Marvin’s return, the main event trios on Friday (they say Konnan may replace Zorro), Chessman on the cover of Dos y Tres. That magazine teases Oriental joining the Vipers.
indy (TUE) 08/12 Arena Coliseo Monterrey [RFC]
1) Mini Black Dragon b Cowboy
2) Ultratumba b Rey Fuego
3) Cowboy Jr. b Coyote
4) Vendeta b Piwi
5) Bam-Bam, El Divo, Fomer Love b Chica de Arabia, Corazon Adicto, Divino, Principe Guerrero
6) Rey Demonio Jr. b Angel Dorado Jr. [FILL LIGHT]
7) El Hijo del Solitario, La Kalaka, Simbolo b Gnostico, Golden Boy, Tigre Universitario
CMLL (THU) 08/14 Arena Isabel de Cuervanaca [La Union Online]
1) Carta Brava & Eddy Cruz vs Cirio I & Cirio II
2) Ángel Azteca Jr. & Mictlan vs Dr. X & La Mosco
3) La Sombra, Máscara Púrpura, Turbo vs Black Thunder, Misterioso II, Skandalo
4) Mr. Niebla & Rey Bucanero vs Dr. Wagner Jr. & Héctor Garza
I think Turbo’s working here as a extra guy with others in Spain. Wish he could make Coliseo the same ay.
There’s other stuff discussed in the comments of the last news post from this week’s Wrestling Observer, but the most interesting bit to me was the rumor the entire Perros del Mal might go independent. They would still work CMLL shows, but they’d run their own office and handle working with promoters themselves. it wouldn’t neccesarily be exclusively the current members of the Perros – they’re talking with others. The upside for the Perros is they’d be getting paid more per show, because CMLL wouldn’t be taking a cut. The downside is they’d have to deal with the promoters and CMLL might prefer to push other guys (Guerreros?) ahead of them, since CMLL would want the guys their getting paid for to be in the highest demand. It seems to be more talk than reality at this point, but worth keeping an eye on.
Last Friday’s show drew 13,750 fans. Not 13760, not 13740. Dave lists the 08/08 TV ratings as 6.48 for AAA and 3.28 for CMLL.
The most discussed story is the story of unrest in AAA’s locker room. To me, this is a good sign, because it indicated people are still left inside AAA’s locker room. Actually, I try to be funny, and this line beats me:
The undercard wrestlers complained about not getting enough storylines and never knowing what they are going to do next as they are now booking on the fly and nobody knows what they are doing until they get to TV.
Is he referring to AAA at the moment? Is he referring to AAA five years ago? Who can say, they’re the exact same complaints as ever. Antonio Pena was notorious for not having anything planned and keeping people in the dark until the moment they went out for the match (presumably because he didn’t yet have a plan for them), and this all seems like business as usual for AAA.
“The lack of upward mobility” isn’t totally new, but it is a by product of the new booking philosophy. When you center your promotion around a major singles champion, that means that guy and the people involved with him will continually be at the top of the card. The title’s only a draw if people believe it’s the biggest thing, and you can’t cycle the champion down to a lower down in the card to push another big feud because it diminishes the important of the title. That’s different than how lucha has normally run.
It’s still no excuse for not doing more. The philosophy of building everything to four major shows a year in itself doesn’t restrict talent, but the practice of deciding the lineup two months up and doing nothing but variations of the same matches until that time freezes out everyone who doesn’t have a big match. As much as we all love the Apaches, there’s no reason to run an angle with them on Week 1, and then put them on TV for 9 more straight weeks without advancing it while other people get no TV time and no storylines. There’s no good reason to do a multi team tag feud, including the tag team champions, and never doing anything with the titles. There’s no good reason that guys like the Sect have been marginalized or that they’ve put so much time and effort into Billy Boy and now he’s back in the openers without a particular reason.
I’d like to think Super Fly and Aero Star being moved up into higher positions is an indication of a change, but waiting and seeing seems like a better idea.
Meltzer says the mystery man who attacked Konnan was Mascara Divina. Based on the pictures, he may have yet another new gimmick because it didn’t look much like him and it wouldn’t make much sense.
#1 by xuisaw on August 14, 2008 - 4:13 pm
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Lots of stuff to comment in this post…
IMO, both Traumas are a couple of sucky weaklings!! At least I gets hurt when receiving attacks, II kicks someone and then is seen limping the rest of the match…
“inviting want to be AAA wrestlers to come try out at Arena Solidaridad” Earlier this year or late 07 CMLL ran news ticker invitation aspiring wrestlers to their parking lot (weird place to have a try out, but I guess you have to earn the right to train in the sacred ArMex ring- on the other hand, it beats the gang like initiations from 30 or 40 years prior where guys would be beaten into an inch of their lifes). I guess no one save maaaaybe Inquisidor showed up since the guys being in CMLL come from other parts.
OTOH, it might also be the local AAA promoter wanting to get workers for his shows, and not PAPSA (who is said to be tight with the Nvo Laredo guys for providing talent, or was until this recent uproar came up)
Interesting thing about the Perros rumor is that Perros would actually mean “Aguayo and Garza” since I doubt the others can be booked as main eventers without CMLL putting them, which might mean that Garza was on his way back (at least it looked so after the ending of the increibles match that had him stomping “buddy” ‘tico). They already went indy a couple of years back and it didn’t work, and today’s even more unlikely it will work. Besides guys being unhappy about CMLL taking a cut, there’s also the thing about underwater fees that go to the bookers and “padrinos”, that was what Wagner was complaining about at the time of the “Titeres” interview.
13,750 sounds great compared to the LdP final plus GP, but attendance is likely to go down and keep going down from now on till the Anniversary show, unless something major is added to the 29th…
That “booking on the fly” is crap, the cards are done 3 weeks earlier and everyone knows what’s gonna happen, as if they can not figure out Chessman turn, that Apaches and Morenos will have a title match… or a stip match down the road with Brazos, they’ll obviously try to stretch things out the most possible.
We can not forget about Gato’s push, in a skit he was shown “talking” on the phone to Alebrije and apparently agreeing to get help from someone (Divina?) to deal with Legion, hehehe, I still think they’ll try to get someone to jump and say that was the mystery guy but if it or when it fails, they’ll just use a local… I wonder if the “Hombre de Negro” who was running El Sindicato was ever revealed…
Hey, Metzy stole Keith’s numbers!!
#2 by k.D.b on August 14, 2008 - 4:38 pm
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“Loco Max vowed the streets of Spain will fill with tecncio’s blood.”
That is making me laugh because it brings to mind Beavis’s famous quote “and the streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers!!”
I’d like to believe some of the undercard guys will get a push instead of seeing the same old, same old.
I understand the old guard, plus the Legion, is AAA’s moneymakers and who the fans pay to see, but at some point a case must be made for the younger guys and allow them to step up and assume larger roles in the company.
My thought on drugs in Lucha Libre, this and Puro would be the last places to hear about anyone doing drugs. To be honest, I’ve seen Ciber and Chessman basically look like jacked up Triple H and Chris Benoit clones on a few shows, the commision needs to do something before they have a Chris Benoit-like situation on their hands.
As far as Mascara Divina goes, I saw angels wings on the back of the costume, all I am saying.
#3 by Kyle on August 14, 2008 - 4:55 pm
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Guess Okumura isn’t ready to return to the ring yet.
#4 by Rob on August 14, 2008 - 5:06 pm
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Whoa, CMLL is going all out for the Aug 29th show…
” Un cartel rico en emociones es el que ha preparado el CMLL, en vísperas del gran Aniversario, el 29 de agosto en la Arena México seremos testigos de duelos Sin Piedad, en uno de ellos Mictlan y Dragón Rojo Jr. han firmado el pacto para su lucha de mascaras, pero eso no es todo pues las damas Luchadoras también llevarán al extremo su rivalidad y así, en relevos increíbles con final suicida, Lady Apache y Amapola se medirán con Marcela y Princesa Sujei, compromiso donde caerá una cabellera o una máscara; además se anuncia el regreso de TNA a México, y Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin y AJ Styles buscarán nuevamente el triunfo ante los nuestros que ahora estarán representados por los Campeones de Tríos del CMLL; último Guerrero, Atlantis y Negro Casas. Para redondear aún más este impresionante cartel, se anuncia que Místico estará de vuelta, después de su experiencia en China, para hacer equipo con Dr. Wagner y Shocker y enfrentar a Rey Bucanero, Black Warrior y Mr. Niebla.”
Negro Casas vs A.J. Styles will officially crash the DVDVR board when I post it. Match order is going to be VERY interesting.
#5 by xuisaw on August 14, 2008 - 5:13 pm
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I saw it on the boards but couldn’t find it on the page…
I think it will have:
1. Opener
2. Ladies Suicidas
3. Filler
4. TNA vs Guerreros Negros (Take that Atlantis!!)
5. Masks
6. Wagner
Although I must say that the rudo team from my theoretical main event seems not fitting, I’m calling a Shocker turn so that he can beat Garza for his hair in the Anniversary show, if it was up to me, I would probably switch the stip matches, though.
#6 by Rob on August 14, 2008 - 5:22 pm
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It’s on the noticias page which is strange b/c you cannot access the noticias page from the main page. Someone forgot to put a link up. You need to have the direct link cached to access it.
Meanwhile the SuperLuchas page has a recap of Juventud Guerrera’s press conference which is officially the greatest thing ever.
BTW, for anyone reading this – I am now the official talent liason for any promotion in Canada. If you ever want to book a Canadian wrestler, feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it.
#7 by xuisaw on August 14, 2008 - 5:26 pm
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Martha saying Fuerza AAAerea is leaving might mean we’ll see Rey Cometa Jr and Pegasso in IWRG or… NWE?
#8 by Rob on August 14, 2008 - 5:34 pm
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Or her stomach after she eats them for breakfast.
#9 by Kyle on August 14, 2008 - 5:41 pm
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Hahaha.
#10 by xuisaw on August 14, 2008 - 8:31 pm
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Isn’t Ultimo Dragon the NWE tie to Mexico?
Good to see no one cares about Perros going Indy, I thought it would make at least a 0.1 in the Guapito scale.
#11 by Nikita on August 14, 2008 - 9:22 pm
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I think the WCW comparisons are being interpreted a little differently by those reading them, than what the authors intended – mostly because WCW was way f’d up by the time they folded up shop.
I think the comparisons are valid in that the business in Mexico is at the point in the “cycle” where it is starting a downturn from a peak. So, while AAA might still be profitable, it isnt making the money it was a couple years ago.
The landscape has changed as well – Pena is gone and a new sheriff is in town. Roldan may be running the company, but Konnan is the one with the stroke, and he has a heavier hand in things than he did when Pena was around.
The comparison, I believe, is the climate in WCW when Bischoff was out, and Russo was in, and then suddenly Russo was out and Sullivan was left with the book. Regardless of what you think of Bischoff/Russo, there was a structure to WCW that made it hugely successful from 1996-1998. While they may have played favorites with Hogan, DDP, NWO, etc, there were also the Benoits, Guerreros, and Malenkos that understood their spot and flourished in it. More importantly, they were loyal to Bischoff. Suddenly Sullivan has the book and guys who said they would stay in WCW forever because of opportunities they got from Bischoff were looking to go elsewhere. They saw the “glass ceiling” for the “vanilla midgets”.
AAA is the same way right now. Pena had favorites, sure, but there was a structure to it and guys were loyal. Sure, there were guys upset with their spot and their money, but there always are. With Pena gone, Konnan is the equivilant of Sullivan. Guys are now unhappy with their spots and dont feel the loyalty (or perhaps trust) they had when Pena was steering the ship. Is Octagon or Abismo keeping their spots any different than how Nash or Hogan kept theirs?
I also think something that just adds fuel to the fire is the way that AAA runs their shows. Cubs, like you said, they set up a major show, and then kinda keep everything in a holing pattern until that big show. It is harder to do that when you run a “touring promotion” that relies on showcasing stars to draw fans. See, since CMLL runs as a territory, it isnt as big of a deal if a top draw like Mistico or Wagner misses a Friday – fans will more than likely see them the following Friday (if not Sunday, or Tuesday). AAA may only visit their town once or twice in one year, so fans are going to want to see the stars, or they may leave unhappy… and thus not come back. Unlike the US or Japan, the gate is still the most important thing in Mexico – they arent making up for it in TV revenue, or DVD sales, or PPV revenue.
So while it might make for stale cards, it doesnt make a lot of sense for AAA to leave stars off the card. Plus, with them really only running around 50 shows a year, most of the boys would probably be pretty pissed if they missed out on their payday. I find it hard to blame a guy like Niebla for jumping when he was essentially screwed out of a mask match payday because Abismo went off the wagon. If guys are gonna make more money working indy dates (or in CMLL if there is interest), that is where they will ply their trade if they are already unhappy.
#12 by luchalibrelive! on August 15, 2008 - 12:23 am
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did meltzer print cmll/aaa tv ratings?
#13 by luchalibrelive! on August 15, 2008 - 12:40 am
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@luchalibrelive!: ignore that
#14 by luchalibrelive! on August 15, 2008 - 1:14 am
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@xuisaw: No. I sent those to Dave. I’m a huge Meltzer fan. I’ve been reading him since about 1987. Actually, late 1986 as a second-hand subscriber at first.
#15 by luchalibrelive! on August 15, 2008 - 1:18 am
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I think Perros have always been kind of indy. Perro Jr., left AAA to be indie at first. Even if CMLL gets a cut, they have tv, and a booking office, and can still get Perro more bookings which means more money in his pockets.
Random- I just got back from TNA in Ft. Myers. Another crowd of about 800 or so. I think their touring days are going to wind down by the end of the year.
#16 by luchalibrelive! on August 15, 2008 - 1:46 am
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On Ras de Lona at about 2:15 or 2:20 of the segment with Wagner and the kids, what did the kid ask Wagner about tamano?
#17 by xuisaw on August 15, 2008 - 2:42 am
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News about the CMLL Spain tour…
http://solowrestling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2309
Cryptic, it says that the show was enjoyable, but “the place was not even sold at half capacity”
The guy then says that “todos los espectadortes hemos estado al lado del ring. ” which could mean that everyone was in ringside unless it was a expression meaning “on the edge of our seats” so I don’t really know what to make out of it (yep, Spain’s Spanish has to be translated :=)
#18 by Daniel on August 15, 2008 - 11:36 am
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@Nikita: You took the words right out of my mouth
#19 by Rob on August 18, 2008 - 6:27 pm
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This will be a good test to see if there are limits to the comments!
AAA is in the situation they are in because the people who make the decisions are treating the company as if it’s an American or Puerto Rican promotion. They have no concept of what works in Mexico and what has worked for AAA for 16 years now. They draw full houses for
the TV Tapings headlined by Elegido, Gronda and Parka but totally turn the blind eye and wonder what ROH guys they can bring in for Verano De Escandalo where Gronda and Elegido probably won’t even get booked. Does that make sense to anyone on any level? Or how about why a guy like Billy Boy is stuck working opening matches when he is a) talented and b) one of the most over wrestlers in the company? Is his problem that he was born in Mexico? The guy has done everything he can to show he is a good wrestler and to win the fans over and his reward is working below El Angel and Argenis, two guys with the same gimmick that nobody cares about. But hey… let’s go try to sign an ROH guy and make sure he gets in a big match at Verano De Escandalo where nobody will know his name and he’ll never show up again. How is Bryan Danielson doing anyways? Even more… you have the Mexican Powers, La Hermandad and La Familia. Three groups that can’t work with anyone except themselves and take up spots on the card that could be used much better. My suggestion: TJ Xtreme, Nicho and X-Fly = bye bye. Crazzy Boy, Ultimo Gladiador and Extreme Tiger = new Mexican Powers. Halloween, Joe Lider and Toxico (with a new gimmick) = new rudo group that can come up with their own name. If you need a third team to feud with them you have Jack Evans, Teddy Hart and Super Fly (who turns rudo) as the new Legion team. But the biggest problem is with the top of the card… Vampiro is boring. Nobody cares about his return. It’s always been like that. He shows up, gets a huge reaction and then nobody cares after a few weeks. He is useless and needs to finish the feud with Mesias at Verano and go away so someone younger can take his spot on the top of the card. Then you have Konnan who can’t move when he’s in the ring but somehow is still a top guy in every main event. Then you have Cibernetico who the fans want to see beat Mesias and win the feud. Winning the title at Rey De Reyes meant nothing because TITLES MEAN NOTHING IN MEXICO. The AAA bookers need to realize that and stop pretending they are booking an American/Puerto Rican promotion. The fans want to see Ciber take Mesias’ hair… that’s the only way their feud can ever end. That should be the Guerra De Titanes main event, end of story.
AAA could be a much better promotion if:
1) those in charge started taking lessons on how to book cards for Mexicans. When you draw full houses in Mexico, you should probably focus on THOSE fans and not the half-houses you draw in America.
2) those in charge stopped messing with bringing in new foreigners all the time. Make your roster of 60-70 people and focus on getting every single person over and not worrying about ‘luchador sorpresa’ Bryan Danielson/Bobby Lashley/Rikishi/Scott Steiner/insert any other name that means nothing to the attendance.
3) those in charge began creating new feuds. Konnan vs Parka? Why not have Konnan recruit Super Fly and Parka take Aero Star under his wing? Why are the Mexican Powers always feuding with the other hardcore group around at the time? Why not have the Mexican Powers feuding with the Legion? If Apache and Billy Boy are friends now, why not have them form a friendship with Chessman, Alebrije and Charly Manson as a group that have been in AAA for 10 years now and want to defend it’s honor? Why should Billy and Apache only feud with themselves? What about the Psycho Circus? You spent so much time building them up as monsters and they are still wrestling in midcard matches. Why not have the Psycho Circus feuding with the Legion? Does nobody in the Legion want to job?
4) those in charge need to keep the undercards fresh with new talent, the mini’s division strong and the women doing their own feuds rather than mixing with the guys. If you can make all three of those happen – you already have half your shows filled and just have to focus on the top 3 matches.
AAA is still drawing good crowds and is still miles ahead of CMLL in every department but there is a definite sign that things could be heading in a WCW-esque direction down the road if things don’t change. Someone like KONNAN should realize this since he lived through the WCW days. But I fear Konnan himself is one of the biggest problems since he is just concerned with turning AAA into an international company so that he can acheive the stardom in America that he never got with WCW and feel he is rightfully owed.
But the one thing that needs to be changed right away – the people in charge. You need people who understand MEXICO, not people who think they understand WRESTLING and think wrestling is the same everywhere.
#20 by Tim on August 18, 2008 - 7:10 pm
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Not one mention of CZW or Nate Webb Rob? I’m shocked.
AAA just needs to give the book to Apache or Mocho Cota or bring back Pena from the dead.