CMLL on 2017-10-06

all sorts of dive

Recapped: 10/06/2017

All matches aired live from Arena México


Mercurio & Pequeño Nitro beat Fantasy & Acero
(13:54 [6:05, 3:46, 4:03], 1/3, below average)

Blue Panther Jr., Fuego, The Panther beat Misterioso Jr., Sagrado, Vangellys
(15:46 [6:01, 2:15, 7:30], 1/3, ok)

Hechicero beat Valiente in a lightning match
(9:03, rolling half crab, good)

Cavernario, Felino, Negro Casas beat  Pierroth, Rush, Sam Adonis in a relevos increíbles match
(7:57 [4:41, 3:16], 1/2 DQ, ok)

Dragón Lee, Mistico, Soberano Jr. beat Luciferno, Mephisto, Rey Bucanero
(13:47 [3:07, 3:37, 7:03], 2/3, good)

Carístico, Diamante Azul, Marco Corleone beat  Gran Guerrero, Shocker, Último Guerrero
(10:26 [4:14, 1:58, 4:14], 2/3, ok)

What happened:

Fuego on fire

Leyenda de Plata and the Dia de los Muertos shows were officially announced as coming soon.

Sam and Los Ingobernables beat up Casas after the match and made scissors motions to his hair.

Misteroso tried to snatch The Pantehr’s mask after the match, only for Panther and his brother to take Misterioso’s mask.

Fantasy & Acero replaced Shockercito & Stukita.


all of Valiente

The main event had a couple big spots at the end of each fall but didn’t do a whole lot for me. The match that preceded it was easily better, and lots of this felt like going thru the usual motions for a main event. Gran Guerrero getting lost on a submission was amusing. Diamante’s big moves look impressive. Two Mistico’s running to end the matches was amusing.

The semimain was a lot of fun, and one that got better as the match went on. The rudo team did not look particularly promising, but they were up for everything the técnicos tried and had a few idea of their own. It was really more the técnicos sticking with their usual stuff, but their usual stuff looked superb. The triple dive was really good, Soberano’s finishing tornillo went better this week, and Dragon Lee’s over the top headscissors felt like it came out of nowhere. Definitely worth checking out.

The fourth match was a very one dimensional brawl. It never got much behind that, and the brawling never was so great to make this compelling. Casas wasn’t really selling for Sam like he has in other situations. Cavernario seems like someone who would be fun for Rush to fight, but again he looked so much more into his short exchange with Casas. Pierroth is not good.

Valiente/Hechicero was an enjoyable lightning match. Not the top thing I think they can do, but maybe I’m expecting too much from 2017 Valiente in singles matches. He did his big dives, he took Hechicero’s big stuff, that’s probably a fair expectation. The Valiente special looked great, as did Hechicero’s escape into a German suplex. The moonsault catch didn’t go so great, but I was just delighted Hechicero actually won after not getting the pin on the conjuro.

operation dragon

Sagrado was really good on the rudo team and the match could’ve been better with two better partners. Misterioso’s act is very slight, and Vangellys was offering up low impact spears. Crowd loved Fuego and his headscissors to the floor looked cool. The Panther continues to work on the dragon screws; they’re not great, but just trying to work on something makes him in the upper half here.

The opener was the secret surprise Fantasy appearance of this week. Blessed is not the word I would use to describe the feeling. These are the two least colorful mini técnicos in CMLL and they were no different here. Fantasy is really a super solid guy but even his flashy moves are somehow boring. Pequeño Nitro’s headscissors was a cooler spot than any of the técnicos. Mercurio & Pequeño Nitro didn’t totally mail it in, but they didn’t keep it much interesting when they took control of the match for most of the second fall.

I forgot the name already

CMLL Martes: 2017-10-03 

this show was a bomb

Recapped: 10/04/2017

All matches aired live from Arena México.


Fantasy & Pequeño Olímpico beat Eléctrico & Último Dragóncito 
(12:48 [5:13, 3:29, 4:06], 1/3, ok, via: VideosOficialesCMLL)

Astral, Pegasso, Starman vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Metálico, Templario
(15:31 [7:44, 4:09, 3:38], 2/3, below average, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

La Vaquerita, Marcela, Princesa Sugehit beat La Seductora, Tiffany, Zeuxis
(13:09 [6:21, 2:59, 3:49], 1/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Guerrero Maya Jr. beat Tiger in a lightning match
(8:19, Sacrifica Maya, good, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Dragón Rojo Jr., Felino, Pólvora beat Rey Cometa, Stuka Jr., Titán 
(14:37 [4:02, 5:45, 4:50], 2/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Marco Corleone, Niebla Roja, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Euforia, Gran Guerrero
(11:40 [4:51, 2:03, 4:46], 1/3 DQ, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

What happened: 

Maya corner tope

Niebla Roja has new white and red gear – at least, they don’t look exactly like the ones he was wearing before. Roja leaped into the ring into a foul from Cavernario. Cavernario said it was an accident and might have had a case.

Fantasy subs for Pierrothito because, even with this being the first show here in two weeks, CMLL figure out who was actually around to work the show. Último Dragonicto gets dropped chest first off a blocked headscissors in the third fall, uses his hands to break his fall, and injuries his left elbow. Fantasy gets in a dropkick, but Olímpico smartly submits Dragoncito to end the match quicker.


Zeuxis flying knee

The word “usual” is inescapable for this show. This is the first show back from the earthquake related stoppage, but it might as well have happened right away. (The tricolor bunting CMLL hung in Arena Mexico is still there, as if time stood still.) The matches are generally OK, the main event hits the usual bit spots for a main event, but the show is nothing interesting at all. The técnicos give a good effort, and there’s tease of a Niebla Roja/Cavernario feud in the main event, but this action and effort was the same as most Tuesdays. The first show back could’ve been a special show, but this was not in. Niebla Roja looks good enough that he’d be fine as an unmasked técnico; they were already trying to push him as the ladies’ new favorite luchador. His look stands out more than his wrestling, and that finish didn’t look good.

The semimain was an attempt to have a good match, but because maybe because it was the same usual good match – they did the star – it didn’t really connect to me as much as it should’ve. There was a little sloppiness. Cometa/Rojo had some iffiness in the ring but nailed the diving headscissors to the floor. Stuka falling down in the Revolucionarios torture device was not great. Stuka putting his gum back in his mouth after accidentally spitting it onto the mat was totally not great. Titan did about a bunch of dives and took a superbomb for the finish, coming off as the best guy in the match. This was just missing some intensity, I guess.

The lightning match probably got graded higher because the rest of the show before it had been not any good and wanted to like something and these two did just enough of what I like out of them normally. It’s not their top effort, and there’s roll of the dice reverse DDT that does not go well, but other wise it’s pretty clean and efficient wrestling with a few nice big spots.

The women’s match was a disposable women’s match. Zeixus got great high on her knee smash. Vaquerita’s elbow drop looked nice too. I saw enough of the segunda to hate it. The opener was just boring.

Cometa diving headscissors

Crash taped TV pilot, CMLL Friday night, Aroluxe

The Crash (THU) 10/05/2017 Auditorio de Tijuana, Tijuana, Baja California [@JorgeGCRR , 126f, The Crash]
1) Dave Crist & Jack Crist © b Black Boy & Black Danger [IMPACT TAG]
Black Boy and Black Danger had problems by the end of the match. After the match, they announced Hugo Savinovich would be at the next Crash show in TJ.
2) Christi Jaynes & Keyra b Baronessa & Diosa Quetzal
Keyra beat Baronessa.
3) Arkángel Divino, Laredo Kid, Máscarita Dorada b Demus 3:16, Steve Pain, Último Maldito
Steve Pain replaced Mr. 450 (moved up.) Demus and Dorada feuded after the match. Dorada wants a mask vs hair match, Demus wants a lot of money.
4) Trevor Lee © b Último Ninja [IMPACT X]
The three way was split into two singles match (because Daga can’t appear on Impact, though the reason here was Trevor Lee demanded it that way.) This match appeared taped for Impact.
5) Trevor Lee © DQ Daga [IMPACT X]
This match was not taped for Impact (though they taped Lee’s post match celebration.) Lee retained after the commission ruled Daga fouled Lee, though Lee might have caused it. Daga teased the idea of going to Impact to challenge Lee, and Konnan said he’d try to get a no-DQ rematch.
6) Bestia 666, Black Taurus (Indie), Mr. 450 b Jack Evans, M-ximo, Willie Mack
Bestia pinned Jack. Mr. 450 replaced Garza (injured, appeared in a video to say he’d be back.) Pierroth attacked Jack and Damian ran him off.
7) The King b Flamita [The Crash CRUISER]
Flamita worked slightly rudo. Boos during this match.
8) Brian Cage, Penta 0M, Rey Mysterio 619 b La Máscara, Pierroth, Rush
Rey beat Pierroth.

The show was taped as a TV pilot, probably for the Azteca Mexico network. There were extra cameras set up to shoot the show that hadn’t been there past shows. Hugo might fit into that, since he’d be an obvious pick to be an announcer. There’s no info on when/if it would air.

Also during the show, they announced an upcoming retirement match but people on social media were confused as to who it was retiring. The Crash’s Facebook recap doesn’t mention it all, Jorge CRR thought it was a Nicho retirement, and 126F thought it was a Konnan retirement match. That last choice would make the most sense, and would be a decent idea to get attention for a TV show early on. No date was announced, but they did say it would be Konnan, Nicho and Damian against Pierroth and others (maybe the other Ingobernables.)

126f suggested the boos in Fenix/Flamita match was because the match was good but not as great as hope (lacking some intensity) and the fans were tired by that point and wanted to see the main event. The usual late Tijuana start time is a bigger obstacle on a Thursday than a Saturday.

The Universo 2000 benefit show scheduled for yesterday in Coliseo didn’t happen, and Mascara 2000 says it’s will be rescheduled. (via @therealfredo).

CMLL resumes to Friday night shows tonight. Judging from the last couple of shows, you should not expect something special unless two young guys decide they want to go 30 minutes and the referee doesn’t stop them. Tonight’s main event is Carstico, Diamante Azul, and Marco Corleone versus Gran Guerrero, Ultimo Guerrero and Shocker, a matchup with no particular rivalry or reason to exist. CMLL has an exciting trio of tecnicos in the semimain (Mistico, Dragon Lee and Soberano) and a middling group of rudos to oppose them (Mephisto, Lucifierno and Rey Bucanero.)

The fourth match has the only ongoing story here, with Negro Casas and Sam Adonis on opposite sides of a rudo/rudo trios match. Casas is with the only two currently available Peste Negro members, Cavernario & Felino, while Adonis is teaming with Rush & Pierroth. Rush seemed disappointed he wasn’t the one feuding with Negro Casas last time around.

Valiente & Hechicero are in the lightning match. The Panther Brothers team with Fuego against known bullies Sagrado, Misterioso and Vangellys. The show is scheduled to have Mercurio & Pequeno Nitro versus Shockercito & Stukita, though I’m not sure if Stukita is back in Mexico at this point.

The show is back to airing on ClaroSports at 8:30. It’ll be on CMLL’s YouTube as a VOD sometime after 11.

There’s also the debut show of promotion XXX at Arena Naucalpan. Groon XXX headlines in a eight man ruleta de la muerte, with Jack Evans, Villano III Jr., Tiago, Black Taurus, Decnnis, Sharly Rockstar, and Hiijo de Lizmark. Tiago losing his hair seems like the most likely outcome, though Sharly, Decnnis or even Lizmark wouldn’t be stretches. The show also includes a Oriental vs Guerrero Siam match billed as lucha libre versus MMA. It’s not a TV taping at Naucalpan, but this is a show likely to be on many YouTube channels this weekend.

This week’s Wrestling Observer Newsletter has more details on the mystery casting call happening in California later this month. It’s said to be Aroluxe, who briefly owned part of TNA/Impact, they’re planning on taping the show in Nashville in 2018, and they’re hoping to get Vince Russo to write the show. The Harris Brothers, who work for Aroluxe, have a long relationship with Russo and the theory is Lucha Underground did fine with an ex-WWE writers (Chris DeJospeh & Chris Roach) so they can do the same. The whole project is explained that way in the WON: they think Lucha Underground did some things right and they can just do the same things and fix what they saw as the mistakes. They story frames it as the new group hoping to do it with the same people; they expected LU to be out of business by now and they would be able to convince those people to join their show. The idea would be to sell it to Spanish language networks in the US.

Russo, who’s two years of success in wrestling is more than outweighed by the following near two decades of failures, would not be a natural fit for a show attempting to reach a lucha libre audience. (In a long forgotten bit, there was a point early on where Vince Russo visited a Lucha Underground taping in hopes of hooking on as a writer, and they thought he was too way out there to be useful.) It’s notable that only ex-WWE writers are ever talked about for these gig. The wrestling industry has done a much better job of developmenting talent in front of the camera than behind it, where spots are even fewer and held onto tighter.

This concept is almost too absurd to take seriously, down to the idea of getting on a lucha show on Spanish TV. (Years of CMLL selling their shows for ‘not much’ means it’s going to be very hard to get anyone to pay more than for anything else.) I do think it’s going to represent the start of a pattern. LU got enough buzz early that people are going to spend the next few years trying to clone it, but they’re going to miss the things they got right and the things they got lucky on. Just speaking of talent alone, the wrestling world itself is a lot different place than it was in 2014. Ricochet became Prince Puma because, in part, NXT didn’t seem open to guys like him at that point. They are now. The 2018 version of Prince Puma would be a guy like Lio Rush, but he’s already signed to NXT, or a guy like Dezmond Xavier, but he’s appears already signed to Impact. The 2018 Cage might have been Donovoan Dijak, but he’s already signed to NXT. A guy like Keith Lee would be a great pickup to a startup TV show, but the indies are more much more viable now and they’re going to be less interested in giving up their freedom to be on a TV show. The actual LU guys, if LU ceases to exist, may not be all that interested in jumping into something else where they might be left hanging for a long time at the end. The next Pentagon, the next Fenix, the next Cuerno are probably out there in Mexico, but a LU starting in 2018 wouldn’t have Konnan or AAA to find them for LU, they’ve got their own other deals going and don’t need this one. The 2018 version of Johnny Mundo (Dolph Ziggler?) is unlikely to be as singularly devoted to getting this over as the original one was. And so on. There’s other aspects besides talent to overcome, but – as much as the indies themselves have boomed – try to convince enough of them that it’s worth their time to work for you is going to be much harder when there are so many more options, and the golden apple on the stick is closer than ever. LU has (present tense, don’t yell at me) an incredible amount of talent in front of and behind the scenes, some they got by great selection, some they got by just dumb luck. That part alone is going to be tough to repeat.

You’ve read this long enough to know what’s written here to be on the cynical and overly concerned side. But Vince Russo or no Vince Russo, trying to enter the overcrowd US wrestling space with a new wrestling program in 2018 seemed like something almost certainly to fail. There’s enough red flags here that it seems likely to fail even if the situations were much better, but this just seems like a scheme to lose a lot of money. I hope it works and everyone goes home happy and rich, but my money wouldn’t touch this.

Record has some interviews from the Antonio Pena mass.

Olympic diver German Sanchez is promoting an AAA show in Guadalajara next Friday as an earthquake benefit show.

DTU will have an all champions show on 10/15 in Ecatepec. No matches announced yet.

The Todo x el Todo show scheduled for tomorrow in Madrid, Spain was quietly canceled.

The Gladiatores talks to Black Terry about his first trip to Japan in 26 years old, and to Mascara 2000 Jr. about his mystery friends.

Mini Rey Misterio (the most recent Octagoncito) took a photo inside Arena Mexico. (Via R de Rudo)

LuchaWorld has the latest news update.

Nogales (and Arizona) luchador Anarky says he’s had two tryouts with AAA but is working on something even better.

Puma & Stuka teach a YouTube person how to be a luchador.

MicromanFever has a review of the big matches from the 10/01 Lucha Memes show.

A brief interview with Satillo luchador Zorro Galactico.


CMLL (TUE) 10/10/2017 Arena México
1) Bengala & Flyer vs Apocalipsis & Artillero
2) La Vaquerita, Lady Maravilla, Marcela vs La Comandante, Metálica, Tiffany
3) Fuego, Oro Jr., Pegasso vs Disturbio, Misterioso Jr., Sagrado
4) Rey Cometa vs Pólvora [lightning]
5) Drone, Guerrero Maya Jr., Titán vs Dragón Rojo Jr., Rey Bucanero, Vangellys
6) Cavernario, Felino, Terrible vs Ángel de Oro, Niebla Roja, Valiente

Main event does look like it’s going towards Cavernario/Niebla Roja. Might Flyer actually make a stream again?

CMLL (TUE) 10/10/2017 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara
1) El Alteño & El Divino vs Gran Kenut & León Blanco
2) Astral, Magnus, Vaquero Jr. vs Akuma, Espíritu Negro, Maléfico
3) Star Jr., Starman, Stigma vs Arkángel de la Muerte, Canelo Casas, Sangre Azteca
4) Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Cuatrero, Forastero, Sansón
5) Dragón Lee, Mistico, Volador Jr. vs Ephesto, Luciferno, Mephisto

Panthers and NGD agreed to have a title match, so it’s a non-title match. Maybe on the 17th?

Lucha Memes (SUN) 10/22/2017 Arena La Loma, Puebla, Puebla
1) Baby Star Jr., Demasiado, Nuevo Ángel vs Mini Cuervo, Sexy Alexander, Siki Ozama Jr.
2) The Panther (CMLL) vs Arkalis
Panther must win with a nudo lagunero, Arkalis with La Huachicolera.
3) Guerrero Maya Jr. vs Multifacético
4) Corsario Negro Jr. (Estado de México) & Drako (Estado de México) vs King Rocker & Rey Samuray
5) Virus vs Centella de Oro
6) Dragón Rojo Jr. vs Rey Apocalipsis
7) Negro Casas vs Prayer

A Negro Casas match is a pretty big thing to add as the last match. Interested in what Rey Samuray would do with the Arena Puebla handcuffs off.

The Crash (SAT) 11/04/2017 Auditorio de Tijuana, Tijuana, Baja California
1) Arkángel Divino © vs AstroluxÚltimo MalditoBlack BoyTiagoMirage [The Crash JUNIOR]
fourth defense
2) Jonathan & Máscarita Dorada vs Black Danger & Demus 3:16
3) Keyra © vs Christi JaynesDiosa QuetzalBaronessa [The Crash WOMEN]
third defense
4) Carlito, Damián 666, M-ximo vs Black Taurus, Hijo de Pirata Morgan, Pierroth
5) Hanson & Raymond Rowe vs Brian Cage & Keith Lee and Mr. 450 & Willie Mack
6) Flamita & The King vs Flip Gordon & Sammy Guevara
7) Rey Mysterio 619 vs RushPenta Zero MLa Máscara [The Crash HEAVY]
new championship
8) Bestia 666 vs Jack Evans [hair]

Quick turn around for the next card. This is part of the week of shows and a lineup that would make for a big TV show. It is funny that all the giant guys are together in the fifth match and it’s mostly smaller guys going for the heavyweight title.

CMLL Puebla: 2017-10-02

this match was over the top

Recapped: 10/03/2017

All matches aired live from Arena Puebla.


Fuerza Chicana, Guerrero Espacial, Policeman beat Arkalis, Black Tiger, Tigre Rojo Jr.  
(16:48 [6:09, 4:38, 6:01], 2/3, n/r, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Lestat, Príncipe Diamante, Star Jr. beat  El Malayo, Hijo del Signo, King Jaguar
(16:26 [7:16, 5:29, 3:41], 1/3, n/r, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Princesa Sugehit & Sanely  beat  Dalys & Zeuxis
(13:52 [6:16, 3:38, 3:58], 1/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Ángel de Oro, Esfinge, Stigma beat Cuatrero, Sansón, Virus
(14:47 [7:42, 2:54, 4:11], 2/3, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

Soberano Jr. © beat Cavernario for the Mexican National Welterweight Championship
(28:05, great, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

  1. Soberano running tornillo plancha (6:19)
  2. Cavernario hammerlock headscissors (2:05)
  3. Soberano cavenaria (19:41)

Euforia, Marco Corleone, Último Guerrero beat Flip Gordon, Pierroth, Rush in a relevos increíbles match
(10:44 [4:45, 5:59], 1/2 DQ, ok, via VideosOficialesCMLL)

What Happened:

don’t try to do things with Pierroth

The Guerrero/Marco team worked as técnicos. Rush and Marco feuded, and Rush fouled Marco for the DQ.

Sugehit challenged Dalys to a title match next week after beating her this week.


The main event was about average for a Rush match and none of the other guys stood out. Euforia trying to put Pierroth in his Soberana submission was the most obviously going to fail moment in sometime. Pierroth is not flexible. Pierroth also has Octagon’s look behind you bumps on point. I wish we did get to see that Euforia/Flip match because they did have good chemistry the little we saw them together. Flip’s moonsault looked good, but the disjointed the schedule meant he didn’t really have a chance to go all out in a match.

Soberano and Cavernario was an epic, though maybe not exactly with the formula you’d expect. Cavernario did an unusual amount of ducking out after headscissors and stalling, keeping the pace slower than you’d expect for these two. It may have just been that Cavernario was purposefully taking it easy because he knew how long they were going. It was nearly a 30 minute title match, surely the longest singles match in this building this year. The length added to it, just because it gave them time to do one big move after another for a near fall. It may have bene too much, or lacking some other story beside two count kickouts, but it was Soberano throwing out pretty much everything he knew how to do. The first fall finish could’ve looked better, and the Fire Driver would’ve been a better ending the cavernaria that followed, but Soberano’s dives keep raising the game. The over the top tornillo looked spectacular. Cavernario comes off as more violent than the average wrestler, with his slaps coming off punishing, and he’s a great young wrestler to face these tecnicos.

Sanson’s finish needs a name

The fourth match was solid but not exciting. The rudo controlled portions early were the stuff that worked best for me and I lost interest as it went on. Stigma and Esfinge did a lot of team work in the last fall to push the idea of them being a pair, but that gets you nowhere in CMLL.

The women’s tag match wasn’t impressive. Dalys was at her mechanical worst, looking like a TV host trying to learn wrestling spots for the morning show more than the world champ. Zeuxis, like a true lucha libre main eventer, wrestled her entire match in a t-shirt. She seemed to be taking it easy here. Sugehit had the best performance.

this is not great