One of the frequent points brought up comparing the debut of the original Mistico and the soon to be Mistico are the amount of television appearances. Mistico debuted in 2004, when CMLL was usually limited to a hour of TV in Mexico City.* Astro Boy would turn up on in the Stellar Moments highlights, but he was largely hidden from TV view and only seen by fans who already cared enough about the product to go to live events and arrive in time for the openers. Astro Boy had been around for a few years, but he was an unknown to most regular viewers when he debuted as Mistico.
CMLL now airs 6.5 hours of weekly television in Mexico City* every single week. If you don’t want to watch matches on TV, you can also find most of them on various YouTube channels. It’s impossible to not make a recorded match in some form, and everyone gets on a little. 152 wrestlers have had at least one TV appearance in Mexico City so far this year, compared to 58 the first half of 2004***, right before Mistico debuted.
The big unknown**** is how typical fan is treating all the secondary shows. We know the CMLL on Televisa show gets a poor rating, but numbers for all the other shows are complete unknown. Logic would should the Televisa show would be the most widely watched because it’s the most accessible channel, but how much more watched is unknown. People who visit this website tend to watch many different shows*****, but there are definitely people who only watch Televisa.
If you were one of those people, your view of CMLL might be very different:
CMLL luchadors who’ve had 7 or matches on CMLL on Televisa this year
13 Rey Escorpion, Black Warrior
11 Atlantis
10 Último Guerrero, Rush
09 Volador Jr.
08 Estrellita, Guerrero Maya Jr., Amapola, Delta, Terrible
07 Mr. Águila, Mephisto, La Máscara, Psicosis II
All TV appearances are not the same, but the two guys who’ve been the focus the last few months easily rise to the top. Estrelita & Amapola and the national trios champions are also points of emphasis.
If you follow CMLL overall, either by watching shows or reading blogs, Escorpion & Warrior were two guys in the middle who had a hair match that might be good but didn’t seem important in the grand scheme. If your only interaction with CMLL is watching it’s television show on it’s main station, they’re two of the biggest stars in the promotion.
I’m not sure if there’s a conscious effort to focus more on a smaller group of luchadors, or if the longer than usual feuds have just happened to cause this outcome. Warrior going straight from the hair feud to a trios title feud and Escorpion going straight to a possible breakup with Ultimo Guerrero seems to imply this is an intended result.
The rest of the roster…
6 Stuka Jr., Ángel de Oro, Marcela, Marco Corleone, Valiente, Ephesto, Pólvora
5 Mr. Niebla, La Sombra, Lady Apache, Dark Angel, Princesa Blanca, Máscara Dorada, Averno
4 Olímpico, Máximo, Misterioso II, Hijo del Fantasma, Blue Panther, Dalis la Caribeña
3 Shigeo Okumura, Felino, Virus, Tiffany, Fuego, Triton, Rey Bucanero, Euforia, Princesa Sugheit, Negro Casas, Super Halcon Jr.
2 Ángel Azteca Jr., Prince Devitt, Shocker, La Comandante, Ayumi Kurihara, Metro, Namajague, Hombre Bala Jr., Astral, Yujiro, Pegasso, Electrico, La Seductora, Hooligan, Brazo de Plata, Kráneo, Goya Kong, Skandalo, Titán, Nitro
1 Bobby Zavala, Sagrado, Disturbio, Apocalipsis, Dragon Lee, Cholo, Rey Cometa, Aereo, Luna Mágica, Lady Afrodita, Mercurio, Pequeño Nitro, Pequeño Olímpico, Tiger, Vangelis, Raziel, Súper Comando, Último Dragoncito, Puma King, Dragón Rojo Jr., Diamante, Zeuxis, Demus 3:16, Pierrothito, Sensei, Cancerbero, Niebla Roja, Pequeño Warrior
If you’re someone who only follows the Televisa show, Dragon Lee may be as new to you as Astro Boy was. He’s appeared exactly the same amount of times as Cholo, and that one match was on their best of show way back on January 7th. (Again, key point: We have no idea the percentage of fans who also watch something else.)
A large portion of Dragon Lee’s disappearing act has been the run of tournaments: Sangre Nueva was a C3 deal, Gran Alternativa aired on Fox Sports, and En Busca de un Idolo didn’t air anywhere. In fact, the Busca tournament almost served as CMLL’s usual vacation before someone changes characters, taking Dragon Lee off a lot of TV for about eight weeks prior to the gimmick change. The 1,000 of us who go to CMLL’s YouTube channel saw him plenty, but he just disappeared for most.
Flipping this around, what shows has Dragon Lee been appearing on?
8 C3 (and En Busca de un Idolo)
5 Fox Sports (over 3 episodes; 3 matches in the GA)
3 52MX, TVC Deportes
1 Televisa, Guadalajara
Not counting the web only En Busca de un Idolo matches, Dragon Lee last made TV on either of Friday night tapings in April.
Since I’m doing this for CMLL, here’s the comparable chart for AAA. Note that AAA’s had 30 minutes longer for a while, so there’s a little more opportunity to make TV. Also, I’ve left in the ‘classic TripleMania’ matches, so some odd names will pop up.
11 Chessman
10 Nicho el Millionario/Psicosis
9 Cibernético
8 Dr. Wagner Jr., Texano Jr.
7 Jack Evans, el Hijo del Perro Aguayo, Héctor Garza, Fenix (AAA), Mesías, Halloween, Fabi Apache, LA Park, Mascara Ano 2000 Jr.
6 Extreme Tiger, Mascarita Dorada, Dark Dragon, Toscano, Joe Lider
5 Tito Santana II, Silver King, Electroshock, Juventud Guerrera, Sexy Star, Atomic Boy, La Parka Jr.
4 Mari Apache, Lolita, Mini Psicosis, Octagoncito, Octagón, Argenis
3 Teddy Hart, Heavy Metal, Mini Histeria, Último Gladiador, Murder Clown, Gran Apache, Psycho Clown, Monster Clown, Drago
2 Semental, Aerostar, Mini Charly Manson, Argos, Decnnis, Cinthia Moreno, La Hechicera, Jeff Jarrett, Ozz, Relampago, Ángel Mortal, Zorro, El Elegido, Daga, Cuervo
1 Sexy Lady, Tigre Cota, Mini Psycho Clown, Sugi, CIMA, Yuriko, Abyss, Pasion Kristal, Pimpinela Escarlata, Alan Stone, Dinastía, Dizzy, Escoria, X-Fly, Billy Boy, Perro Aguayo Sr., Villano III, Damián 666, Súper Fly, Charly Manson, Kenzo Suzuki, Villano IV, Gallego, X-Pac
Note that Aerostar, someone considered underused by AAA, has actually appeared more times on Televisa than Dragon Lee. This measurement isn’t quite as relevant for AAA, since luchadors are much more likely to make appearances outside of participating in matches. Not all matches mean the same, too.
* As it does now, the length of the TV show could vary during different points of the year. CMLL wasa definitely producing a 90 minute version, since that eventually turned up in Canada and may have popped up elsewhere. Guadalajara appears to have an hour of TV at this time, but only locals would’ve had access to it. I’m unsure when CMLL Puebla started airing on TVC Deportes but do not believe it goes this far back.
** 2 hours of Tuesday & Friday tapings, 1 hour of the Sunday taping, 1.5 hour of Monday. That doesn’t include the recent En Busca de un Idolo web matches (between 15 minutes and 1 hour in TV time), the GDL show (1 hour), the Terra stream (1.5 hours) and whatever else might turn up.
*** Even that 58 number is inflated. CMLL was running the second Guapos U segment. A lot of rookies – Psycho Clown, 3 gimmick changes before being Psycho Clown! – made TV appearances they wouldn’t have otherwise earned.
**** maybe even to CMLL
***** I’d love to know which shows the people who visit SuperLuchas watch.
If CMLL wanted to aim a certain segment (closer in age to Dragon Lee), Miss XV — a telenovela produced in colaboration with Colombian Canal RCN and co-produced by Nickelodeon Latinoamérica, which started in April, and that is being broadcasted by Televisa and Nickelodeon LA — should’ve been in their radar. Blue Demon made a brief appearance. This telenovela has a high rating and is still being aired but it’s too late since they already finished filming it.
Is Televisa more accecable than Fox Sports? I’ve noticed that the telvisa show does not get the most ipmortant stuff all the time but Fox Sports does. It could be because it is seen in more Latin American countries.
@Daniel: I think the only reasons CMLL is on Televisa is because they are afriad that if they leave, attendance will drop(it won’t) and Televisa does not want to let CMLL leave because it gives work to some of their contracted announcers. I don’t think Televisa pays for the content. CMLL sells ad space on ring and promotes their events and that’s their compensation.
I fail to see why a poll on SuperLuchas is going to give you a different answer than the one I am about to give you.
First, I find it impossible to believe there is a single CMLL fan (*) who follows the promotion exclusively through Televisa. As Andrea noted on twitter her husband was a fan for many years and only watched CMLL on Televisa until he finally started going to shows but he also grew up in the age where no alternate CMLL shows existed. There is no actual proof but one would imagine if CMLL had other shows he would have searched them out and watched those as well. Second, everyone knows who Dragon Lee is. The proof is in the response to the news on the very website you mention (SuperLuchas):
http://superluchas.net/2012/06/20/dragon-lee-es-el-nuevo-mistico/
70+ replies about the news with responses ranging from outrage to wait-and-see to joy. What don’t you see? Not a single person asking “who is Dragon Lee?”
Did anyone e-mail you asking who Dragon Lee is? I was a bit angry (*ahem*) that day and scoured twitter for reaction to the news as I’m sure you did to. Did you see even a single person wondering who Dragon Lee is? I certainly didn’t.
The numbers you came up with are totally accurate but they also omit the entire year of 2011 in which Dragon Lee appeared 6 times and you’d come up with some wild numbers if you counted up the appearences on other shows.
There really is no comparable to when Mistico showed up in 2004 b/c technology hadn’t advanced to the point it’s at now where almost every even somewhat regular Lucha Libre fan is on net. I recall even the Box y Lucha forum had threads wondering who Mistico was as far forward as the Anniversary Show which was 3 months after he first showed up. Every week someone would post a recap of seeing him live and all the cool moves he did. I was insanely jealous and dying to see him on TV. There was a buzz about him.
There is no buzz for Dragon Lee.
CMLL will try to manufacture it but something like this has to be organic. The comparable might be Sagrado. CMLL desperately tried to create buzz for him but there was no word of mouth nor excitement after fans saw him live and realized he was nothing special. Putting him in main events where he stunk it up only accelerated the backlash. The organic response to Mistico was b/c he started low on the card having great matches, doing cool moves, always won and the most important thing of all – he was able to gain sympathy from the audience (especially kids/females) when the rudos would destroy him.
Thus far Dragon Lee has shown he has the cool moves part down and that’s about it. Those cool moves mean nothing if he continues to have no connection to the crowd who see him as another generic midcard flyer. You said it best in your initial response to this news and the following day:
1. “It will take outstanding effort by Dragon Lee’s opponents to make this work.”
2. “If all they’re going to do is give Dragon Lee the new Mistico gear, he’s going nowhere too.”
Mistico had 3 months with no exposure. Dragon Lee will be on the hotseat right away. Your 1 Televisa appearence will surely multiply tenfold and he’ll either be dropping falls weekly making him just another guy except in a Mistico mask or he’ll be destroying everyone which will cause the few fans who attend live regularly to boo him non-stop which is another issue in itself.
This will fail.
* = I define a fan as someone who regularly supports the product by paying to attend live shows.
I wonder what percentage of ticket buyers to CMLL watch no more than 1 hour a week of CMLL on any channel? Seriously. In CMLL, AAA, WWE, TNA, etc.,, there are people who love going to the live events and watch very little of the weekly television. And there are people who never miss an episode but would never go to a live show.
What really interests me is finding out what percentage of CMLL and AAA ticket buyers have cable/satellite? 40% of Mexico has cable/satellite but I’m willing to bet that about 80% of fans attending live shows have cable/satellite.
And if that is true, then it’s time for both CMLL and AAA to say “Fuck You Televisa” and focus on cable, because cable is the future.
I think Budweiser buying Corona could be a big story because they’re the biggest sponsor of televised Lucha. If the new owners have a different opinion of Lucha, that may not be good.
@LLL: I meant “one hour of CMLL a month” not week.
The first thing that jumps out to me, especially watching Mistico II/Dragon Lee on the sobremesa show, is how little of a presence he has. Even though the mask provided a bit of difficulty for him when cutting promos, original Mistico had a presence and look to him that was special on top of the fact that he was being pushed to the moon and winning all those matches. Dragon Lee literally looks like a fan pulled out of the crowd in his Mistico mask.
I wouldn’t imagine that Budweiser would tell the people already working at Corona how to market beer in Mexico.
“I fail to see why a poll on SuperLuchas is going to give you a different answer than the one I am about to give you.”
What I have in mind for the poll:
(select all that match)
most weeks, I watch CMLL
* on Televisa
* on any other TV network
* on YouTube/the internet/highlgihts
* not at all
I’d want the same for AAA & WWE. (They can do UFC if they’d like.)
Like I said on Twitter, I’d believe between there’s between 0%-50% who just watch the Televisa show (and even that occasionally), just based on message board and website comments where people are obviously under informed or unaware of happenings on other shows. It turned up since you posted your comment, but the guy on ByL who couldn’t believe Valiente was in a main even in Guadalajara seems like a good example of that.
I think you believe the CMLL audience has shrunk so far that only people left are the hardest of the hardcore. I wonder if it’s gone a different way, where it’s the same quantity of fans but it’s their interest in the product that’s shrunk. But we’re both just throwing out an anecdotes and I love data. A poll on the website isn’t great but it’s a start in learning about the fans (and there’s no better sample than the people SuperLuchas draws.)
“Did anyone e-mail you asking who Dragon Lee is?”
the only think people email me about is if I can put the videos on DVDs (half kidding), so no one asking me about Dragon Lee didn’t stick out.
“Mistico had 3 months with no exposure. Dragon Lee will be on the hotseat right away.”
Mistico was working with great guys, but guys he hadn’t had matches with already. Dragon Lee, already pushed so high, will be working with largely the same crew he was just facing. And while he has been on Televisa in the past, it’s been long enough that he’ll at least start out as a novelty to those who haven’t been watching him elsewhere – there’s spots he’s added this year, and there’s spots he’ll probably be adding when he comes back. If they can build enough hype to get enough people to give him a second look, it’s their best shot.