- Dr. Wagner Junior went to the CMLL show in Nuevo Laredo to make sure everyone was talking about him. Mission accomplished! Depending on who you listen to, he has or does not have a contract with AAA, but both sides are saying they’ll still be working together. Before his appearance, Wagner gave the press the impression he was going to CMLL, but that does not appear to be the case. CMLL’s has totally ignored the whole situation, an admirable strategy.
- In the actual main event but totally overshadowed, Oriental lost his mask to Mistico. Six days later, Fabian el Gitano also lost his mask, to Angel de Oro. Histeria, involved in both mask matches and rumored to be losing his mask any time soon, still is a masked man.
- Lucha Libre USA: Masked Warriors debuted to okay reviews and an average rating. The ratings trend a few weeks ago is what matters, but they’re not going to have the hype they had for week 1 for all the following weeks.
- Mr. Niebla might have gotten the main event of the anniversary show, but no showed a singles match with Mistico and is now on triple secret suspension. CMLL is aware they have their biggest show of the year in eight weeks, but will get to figuring out a main event right after they clean out the garage and mow the lawn. Maybe put up those shelves too. It’s on the weekend list.
- For it’s part, AAA’s Verano de Escandalo is just three weeks away, and they don’t appear to have come up with a major show card. They have a card, but it looks like a TV lineup with an uninteresting title match and Perro Jr.’s first appearance tacked on. Underwhelming.
- Just after AAA turned Rocky Romero rudo and set up a title match for Verano, Rocky Romero quit the company over a pay dispute. He isn’t the only one who isn’t happy over paycuts, and upcoming lineups have a lot cheaper lineups than usual. AAA appears to be having money issues; coming off TripleMania, the night which would seem to make them the most money of the year, this is especially concerning.
Selected other stuff
- Chessman suffered a fractured ankle due to an attack from Nicho el Millionario. AAA ignored the whole thing until Chessman appeared at a show with his ankle in a cast.
- Hereos del Ring’s roster was announced, cleverly diverting attention from the game being pushed back (again)
- Tirantes refereed some more matches, and everyone realized they really don’t want to see a rudo ref in CMLL in 2010 but it’s not ending any time soon.
- Popitekus passed away
- CMLL Universal Tournament to start 07/30
- Other notable winners: Demus (Bam Bam’s hair), Sexuis (Silueta’s mask), Mr. Aguila & Hector Garza (CMLL Tag Titles), Loco Max (Centella de Oro’s hair)
- The women who murdered Espectrito II and La Parkita were sentenced to 47 years in jail.
- Guapos vs Metrosexuals is the only part of the IWRG vs AAA feud that’s made sense to me
- Strong Man is in the G1. I don’t know. Too bad NJPW wasn’t handing out G1 slots when Dos Jr. was still here and could’ve used the experience.
- I wrote a post or two that I really liked.
@Rob: El Mesias has probably main evented more major AAA shows since Pena died, than anyone in the company. His best days as a star came after Pena’s death, so those in charge during that time period deserve credit with cultivating him and his character for main event status.
He easily could have failed when he lost the mask. Pena was half dead when that happened too. So you have to credit AAA with being able to make him a star after the mask loss. He went on to main event many major shows as El Mesias.
I agree with the randomness of bringing guys in with no build, and expecting them to get over. Especially when in some cases, they don’t even speak Spanish.
And as far as Konnan “not liking gimmicks”, I can’t blame him given the success WWE has had letting people be themselves.
Can you imagine if WWE made John Cena come in as “The Prototype” and told not to do the inner-city white kid he likes to portray?
Batista as “Leviathan”? Imagine if they changed CM Punk?
I’m sure that at some point, we’ll see new gimmicks based on the occult, insects, etc……..
Why are you booking Mexico based on what worked for the WWE? Does the WWE book based on what works in Mexico?
I don’t know the WWE well enough these days but I’m sure for every guy you name me who is allowed to be themselves there are 3 or 4 guys who have outrageous gimmicks.
Mesias took off b/c Pena set him up to take off. No Muerte Cibernetica + Parka feud = no feud vs Ciberentico = no such thing as Mesias. He’d be toiling away in FCW or Puerto Rico now.
Don’t know how much credit to give Konnan for Parka vs Parka. All he did was convince L.A. Park to come in by saying he can win everything. Who wouldn’t jump at that? Come talk to me if the feud ever ends in a mask match or has some sort of definite conclusion. Then I’ll give Konnan some credit for that. Only reason L.A. Park never came back when Pena was alive was b/c Pena would have booked the feud fairly.
“Why are you booking Mexico based on what worked for the WWE?”
Why not? Pena did it for years. He was infamous for incorporating ideas from abroad, mostly from the US.
“Come talk to me if the feud ever ends in a mask match or has some sort of definite conclusion. ”
Would you have trusted Pena to deliver a mask match between the two? Never. No one would say Pena could deliver that match. So if it does not happen under Konnan’s reign, it’s not a blemish on his booking record.
Pena took the mask of Muerte Cibernetica in June of 2006. He didn’t even use him at Verano de Escandalo 2006, although Pena was very ill. Pena died in October of 2006. It was after his when the el Mesias gimmick became perhaps the top star in AAA. He may have used the name Muerte Cibernetica after losing the mask too. So the character and name change all took place after Pena died. The current regime has to get credit for the subsequent success of Mesias.
@LLL: wasnt cibernetico injured going into verano de escandalo 2006?
@CM93: I don’t know. Cubs DB by arena shows him working Nuevo Laredo on 9/11/06, so he might have been injured before Verano on 9/17/06.
@CM93: Oh. You’re saying Cibernetico was injured, so they didn’t use Muerte Cibernetico on Verano as a result?
I dislike Santo and Paco more and think they both hurt lucha.
Hijo Del Santo is a disgrace to the Santo name. El Santo love being in the spotlight. Hijo Del Santo thinks he bigger than AAA and CMLL, and hates television. It just shit on lucha libre legacy.
Paco, thinks everything is his way or no way, which is why a lot of top names don’t last in CMLL. It also a reason why CMLL is in third behind WWE and AAA when they easily have the best roster in pro wrestling and Mistico. Mistico is still popular but his fame died down a lot due to CMLL not having any money matches because all the top guys is in AAA or the indies.
Add Dr Wagner being unprofessional to the list as well.
Rocky Romero sign with that NY Mets guy wrestling promotion. So did Hijo Del Mysterio.
@LLL
How can you say Nikita is biased because he’s a worker when he doesn’t even work for AAA? He has nothing to do with AAA so his opinion is un-biased because he’s an outsider.
You go on and on about how Mesias has main evented so many shows. That’s not a good thing. The man is not a draw, nobody gives a crap about him. I think this has a lot to do with how he’s booked which goes back to the issue at hand…Konnan can’t book.
If you think Konnan the best wrestler to hit Mexico in the past 20 years then you obviously haven’t been watching much Mexican wrestling.
You talk about thick thighed women like it’s a bad thing. Real women have curves and thick legs. That’s what’s sexy, and heterosexual men are genetically programed to find that sexy because it’s a biological sign that the woman is fertile. I just thought I’d educate you on some human anthropology. I
know that the media wants you to think that sexy woman are 90 lbs and have bodies shaped like broom sticks but remember that the fashion industry is controled my straight woman and gay men…people who don’t find women attractive.
And while I’m educating you, you should know that even though Muerte Cibernetica didn’t wrestle at Verano de Escandalo 2006 he did make an appearance. So did Cibernetico who was injuered at the time.
@LLL: according to slambamjam,com he didnt come back until November but i do believe they were involved in an angle on the VdE show as 2nds in a womens match
@Daniel: @Daniel: I like the chunky women. Especially when Estrellita squeezes into something 2 sizes to small.
Maybe we can drop the talk about the women since it’ll lead to the post being closed for comments and I’m actually curious as to how long we can all argue about AAA for.
re: LLL re: Muerte Cibernetica – He and Chessman were working an angle at Verano De Escandalo with the women which led to Chessman being turned on at the taping following Verano De Escandalo which led to Muerte Cibernetica’s feud with Cibernetico where he got sent out to sea and burned alive. That’s where he “died” and eventually came back as ‘El Mesias’. The gimmick you love. This STINKS as an Antonio Pena idea. Konnan even said in one of his first appearences on WON Radio after Pena died that they were continuing with some of Pena’s ideas but were going to phase out certain things (the luchador sorpresa – a lie -, lots of the trannies – a lie – and the strippers – not a lie-). So don’t be so quick to credit a new regime for getting Mesias to where he was. It’s revisionist history to do so.
@Daniel: While you make very few good points, I discredit anything you say b/c if the current AAA product existed in an alternative universe with the only thing changed being Latin Lover was in La Parka Jr.’s position – you’d have no complaints. I can’t tell if you actually do think AAA would be better with all the things you list or if you are just refering to Latin Lover alone.
@Lakersfan…
re: Hijo Del Santo – Agreed. I think Santo is VERY jealous of Mistico and angry that he helped get the Mistico phenomenon started. Santo wasn’t ready to share the spotlight and much like most everyone – he didn’t see Mistico’s rise happening so quickly. When he finally realized fans were seeing Mistico as the new generation Santo, he couldn’t handle it and bolted. Now he’s burned every bridge he has and is honestly only getting by on the money he has saved and the fact he is the son of Santo so those foreigner promoters flock to him to do those Europe shows. I think we’ll find out a lot more about Santo’s true charachter in a year or two when it should be time for a new Santo to debut. I get the feeling that will turn out very messy…
“Paco, thinks everything is his way or no way, which is why a lot of top names don’t last in CMLL.”
I think this is the way it has to be. In the WWE you have one ultimate boss. Vince McMahon. Nothing happens on his shows that he doesn’t approve from a major title change to a dark match result. Without one person having ultimate say on what goes on you have a situation like AAA where none of the top guys want to job and can get away with it b/c if Konnan doesn’t side with them they can just go to Dorian and Konnan needs to keep Dorian happy and thinking his opinion matters. If AAA had a true boss, Park/Parka would have had a finish and Wagner would never have appeared in Nuevo Laredo.
“It also a reason why CMLL is in third behind WWE and AAA when they easily have the best roster in pro wrestling and Mistico. Mistico is still popular but his fame died down a lot due to CMLL not having any money matches because all the top guys is in AAA or the indies.”
Well to be fair they are mostly in AAA/indies b/c they won’t do any jobs. Who needs those type of guys? In a perfect world Perrito returns to CMLL to feud with Mistico and the 2011 Anniversary Show has Mistico taking Perrito’s hair in the biggest match Mexico has had since Atlantis vs Villano III. Of course Perrito would never agree to this b/c of his ego. It also shows what a horrible businessman he is b/c what does Perrito see in his future besides losing his hair? His father lost his hair many times. Can you imagine if his dad had jumped ship every time they asked him to lose a big hair match? THAT’S WHERE THE MONEY IS! You build a feud up, you work with your opponent together to ensure that no matter who wins or loses you are both over and then you have the big match and get the big payday. A lot of top stars these days don’t seem to comprehend how wrestling really works and think if they aren’t getting their hands raised on a weekly basis then they are getting shafted. Nobody sees the value in losing.
“Add Dr Wagner being unprofessional to the list as well.”
Yes. I can’t see anyone arguing with this especially after the Nuevo Laredo fiasco. Here’s another guy in Mil Mascaras territory. He has his two fake belts and his mask and he will never part with any of them. He’ll even hurt his own family in the process to protect his ego.
Talking about all these idiots just reminds me why I find it so hilarious every time anyone on the ByL forum brings up the rumor (even SuperLuchas ran a story on it!) of AAA/CMLL teaming up to do a Bicentennial show.
WHAT?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
WHO WOULD JOB FOR WHO??? WHO WOULD AGREE TO WORK WITH WHO???
‘Padrisimo’ worked b/c even though the wrestlers didn’t get along – they had enough people on the card who understood business is business and they were spread out throughout the matches to make sure everything came out kosher.
Olimpico (CMLL) went over Cobarde (AAA).
Hector Garza (AAA) pinned Satanico (CMLL).
Negro Casas (CMLL) pinned Pirata Morgan (AAA).
Rayo (CMLL)/Porky (CMLL) pinned Shocker/Cibernetico at the same time.
Notice it was mainly the veterans being professional and in the main event you had Octagon/Pierroth on opposite sides making sure things went according to plan.
Can you imagine ANY of the following wrestlers being professional enough to work a major show like this?
Santo, L.A. Park, Wagner, Perrito, Cibernetico, Mesias, Demon Jr.
It’s unbelievable how horribly selfish a lot of the top stars are in Mexico these days and it’s partly to blame why business is shitty. All you need is a big match to generate more interest in Lucha Libre. A match that would get picked up by all the press and national TV outlets b/c it involves people with mainstream noteriety.
Mistico vs Perrito
Santo vs Demon Jr.
Atlantis vs Wagner
Latin Lover vs Perrito
Any of those four big stip matches would get people talking and possibly lead to another boom in Lucha Libre. Of course I can write another 10 pages about why none of those matches would work but we all know the obvious reasons.
Anyone remember that story about Black Shadow refusing to lose his mask to El Santo b/c it would kill his career? No? That’s right. BECAUSE HE DIDN’T AND ENDED UP HAVING A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER *AFTER* LOSING THE BIGGEST MATCH OF HIS CAREER!
Anyone got cliff notes of what Rob said? Too long of a read. Basically AAA sucks and Santo too right?
Interesting read in the observer about the real reason AAA isn’t running Monterrey anymore. I guess that’s why ACM is pretty much dead now. Shame.
@Tim: I can only assume that means you didn’t understand the big words? I find it hard to believe someone who sits at home collecting disability while watching soap operas all day doesn’t have the time to read for 10 minutes. Just read it and consider it paying back the taxpayers who pay for your cable.
Disability? I actually do have a job now. Shocker I know.
Reading it now and I actually agree with most of it.
General reply….
– I am an outsider, as I do not work for AAA (or any lucha promotion currently). But wrestling is wrestling. I have been wrestling for twelve years. I have promoted shows, I have booked shows, I have trained wrestlers. So, can I give the perspective of someone straight from a lockerroom in Mexico City? No. Can I point out something from a different perspective than anyone else on here (Except for Jake)? Yes.
– My point about CMLL cashing in on the AAA midcarders is somewhat of a prognostication. While Oriental lost his mask on an indy show, the CMLL logo was right there on the ring, and for all intents and purposes, it was a CMLL show. If it wasn’t, none of those CMLL guys or the CMLL logo would have been near that show. The bottom line is that guys like Psicosis, Oriental, Histeria, etc that could be being built up for big matches in AAA where they lose their masks to draw a big house will now be doing that in CMLL.
– AAA has lost a ton of talent in the past couple years – most of it native talent. Sure, some of them have made their way to CMLL, but before this invasion stuff, the list was very short. (Pegasus & Cometa?) The list of guys that went indy (or missing) is much longer: Scorpio Jr, Zumbido, Intocable, Latin Lover, Mascarita Dorada/Sagrada, Maniaco, Psicosis, Histeria, Albreje, Cuije, Monster, Chuckie, Charlie Manson, Mr. Condor, Angel Mortal, Juvi, Black Abyss, Porky, Cibernetico, Halloween,…. and probably more I’m forgetting.
– As far as Pena goes – Rob hit it right on the head with Muerte Cibernetica. But also look what he did with Alan Stone. Pena took a mid-card CMLL guy, gave him Intocable’s gimmick, and had him feud with Intocable! It was simple, effective, and drew money. That was a hot feud. Are you telling me more people are willing to pay to see Silver Cain wrestle Vampiro than would pay to see two pretty boys tear each other apart in a Bull Terry match? The hair match between them two should have been a main event at a major show. Same thing with Billy Boy. He should have scalped Apache and got his revenge, and then stormed into the top of the cards and bumping his ass off for guys like Mesias. Instead he is doing nothing, and Apache lost his hair to is own fucking daughter in a pointless match.
– I will give Konnan credit for things he does well. Park/Parka – I give him credit for getting Park back in AAA and that match going down at Triplemania. I will not give him credit for it being his idea though. Real gimmick vs impostor gimmick is far from an original idea. I give Konnan credit for bringing in Teddy & Jack. I give Konnan credit for getting Marco Corleone & Koslov to jump from CMLL.
@Nikita: My point about el Mesias was that the name and character did peak long after Pena first stopped coming to tv then eventually died. Mesias has been a success, peaking as a main eventer in the period after Pena died, and I didn’t think it’s fair to take credit away from the current ownership.
Same with Elegido. He’s an example of Pena’s eye for talent. The name and gimmick came to AAA when Pena was alive, and we all know why Pena hired him, but his crowd pop in 2007 and 2008 was deafening, and that was under the current regime.
In the case of Mesias, they made something out of him for awhile. In the case of Elegido, sadly, they kind of blew it, because he was really over.
Your list of AAA defectors is kind of weak, aside from Latin Lover. Guys come and go. They did under Pena’s rule, and will do so under the current management team. Nothing new. Wasn’t one of the grievances against Konnan that he’s not keeping things fresh? Well there’s your list of a housecleaning.
I agree that AAA has serious problems with stips. But it’s not like Pena had a great record with stips. In fact, Muerte Cibernetica was probably created to feed someone to lose a mask to Parka Jr. because no one else in the locker room would.
The list is only weak if they were easily replaced by talent of equal value. In most cases it was not the case. Example – Oriental. He was a long time mid-level AAA guy who was regularly part of the mixed tag scene in recent years with his sister. Could AAA have benefited from him losing the mask to a guy like Aerostar or Billy Boy, or even a guy like Eligedo? Instead, he walks and loses it to Mistico on a show that drew a good gate for CMLL. Guys who AAA could have used to build up their talent are being cast aside.
@Nikita: Now we’re in agreement about Oriental.
AAA could use a hair or mask loss for credibility. Did Oriental even offer his mask to AAA? Did AAA ask him to lose it? A month ago, I joked “Where is the money coming from to do these big shows in Nuevo Laredo”? WON alluded to it this week. I was joking, but WON is serious. Interesting either way.
CMLL did not pay for Oriental to lose his mask, and of course they would let Mistico win it. Did that show draw a big gate?
AAA needs to do a big stip match with Zorro, Nicho, or even Evans losing their hair. Sadly it won’t happen.
Latin Lover is probably like Santo, and wants too much money. I don’t know if I fault AAA for his departure.
Even if CMLL did not get a cent for the show (and they probably got a cut), they get some benefit from Mistico being able to walk around with Oriental’s mask and talking about that win.
Exactly. Personally, I woulda gave the rub to a guy like Mascara or Dorada, who could use a nice mask win, but CMLL would be hesitant at this point to give them one of *their* valuable masks.
Wasn’t the report that the NL show drew 12k?
Is there even an interesting stip match that AAA would be able to pull off in the near future? I don’t think Perrito/Park/Wagner are realistic. Park/Parka may be possible if Parka is losing… But I just don’t see any interesting stip matches. As much as they job ouit the Dark Family, I am surprised they still have hair. Aerostar deserved a mask win, but from who? Silver King or Gladiador would be total frauds. I can’t see Mesias or Ciber losing their hair.
@Nikita: I think Electro vs. Heavy Metal will be a hair match soon.
Was Sexy Star in Toluca?
Zorro is a big star who should lose his hair.
I remember the twitpics the night of Nuevo Laredo, and I thought the crowd looked small.
Electro vs Metal would be a decent enough stip match, but that is about the biggest stip match AAA could realistically do. The problem is that if Metal wins, who cares, Electro is the one guy who loses his hair at the top of the card. I just can’t see Metal losing his hair so quick after jumping to AAA, but that *would* be the logical finish.
Zorro is a guy that you could put against Mesias or Ciber in a big stip match and draw. In fact, I’m surprised Ciber didn’t have to lose his hair after jumping back to AAA from PdM.
Man, AAA totally blew it by not having the big Stone/Intocable hair match a few years ago….
i think chessman and zorro is one of the mask matches that people could still want to see