CMLL (SUN) 01/31 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara [MT, Fuego en el Ring]
1) Templario b Cuca
2) In Memoria b Relampago
3) Acertijo & Exterminador b Idolo & Saturno
4) Gallo & Metal Blanco DRAW Neutrón & Palacio Negro
5) Ángel de Oro, Ángel de Plata, Sagrado b Euforia, Pólvora, Virus
6) Averno & Mephisto b Blue Panther & La Sombra
Main event was said to be very good and had money thrown in. Rudos took the first, tecnicos took the second. Averno pinned Panther in the third, celebrated his victory, and got rolled up by Sombra. Mephisto beat Sombra for the win.
Draw is said to set up a rematch next week, which is a change of plans. Relampago was strechered out after his loss.
More CMLL Arena Mexico recaps: SuperLuchas, whose description of Mistico as a rudo sounds a lot like Dos Caras Jr. rudo – more running than cheap tactics – and don’t like the way this is going.
More Perros del Mal recaps: ESTO, superluchas, the Gladiatores, Black Terry’s photos
Black Terry Jr’s IWRG photos show the Morgans are the new tag champs.
There was a mini lucha libre convention this week in Ensanda.
Lady Apache won the PWR Women’s Title on Sunday in San Francisco.
SuperLuchas #349 has Negro Casas & La Mascara advancing and Fuka’s retirment.
I can’t find LLL’s comment on the Raw rating from last week, but it is Monday so I’m remembering that I never responded. I’m pretty sure 52mx is not airing it live, but I think I’ve seen it listed as airing on the weekends again which may be more convenient than the 10:30 Monday night start time. TVCDeportes has been airing it live, and I just noticed a channel which is listed as “MULC” and channel 49 on TVGuide.com which lists WWE Raw at 8:00 tonight. I don’t see it listed anywhere other than TVCDeportes on my cable guide though.
What does Superluchas expect a rudo to do? They all can’t get cheered and act like tough guys. If Mistico does the same thing that Dos Jr. did as a rudo, it works better for Mistico since he’s a smaller guy. Being a chickenshit heel doesn’t work for big guys.
Too many fucking writers are stuck in the ECW period. Move on folks.
how many people draw CMLL yesterday in arena mexico ?
@Mr. Mystery: Haven’t heard a number yet, but I think it was more than Friday.
I don’t want to ruffle any feathers b/c I really like SuperLuchas and have no personal issues with anyone who writes for the website/newsletter but there have been some VERY questionable comments about CMLL lately. I know the magazine and promotion have had their differences in the past and I don’t want to insinuate SuperLuchas goes out of their way to criticize CMLL but some of the recent comments are really stretching to bash the promotion for no apparent reason. Some examples:
1) After complaining for a long time about how short the matches are, last week’s recap said the show went TOO LONG! So CMLL is screwed either way in the eyes of SuperLuchas. Meanwhile in the same issue you had a recap of an ROH show that was praised big time even though it went 4+ hours. Why is it okay ROH to go 4+ hours but CMLL goes over 2 and a half hours for the first time in many months and they get called out for being disruptive?
2) The writer of this week’s recap seemed confused as to why there was a DQ for Angel Azteca being thrown over the top rope. He even threw in a line along the lines of: “such as what will happen this Sunday at the Royal Rumble.” The best analogy to this would be a writer at Pro Wrestling Illustrated being confused as to why HHH didn’t get disqualified for low blowing John Cena at Wrestlemania. Why is it CMLL’s job to suddenly follow the rules they use in the WWE? Why is anyone comparing the rules in the two companies?
3) Constantly shitting all over the 2/3 falls six man tag concept. I agree 2/3 falls is useless when it comes to big stip matches or title matches. There is no point in doing falls of 2/2/12 or 5/1/10. Just make it one fall, end of story. But the six man tag 2/3 falls match is a staple of Lucha Libre. AAA ditched it and now they are seen as a pathetic copy of the WWE. Not just b/c they don’t do 2/3 falls but it’s just another thing they don’t do to be more like Vince’s company. CMLL uses the 2/3 falls formula b/c it works best for their large roster. It makes them stand out and you can be very creative with finishes if you have the right people in charge. You know what also works best for a large roster? TRIOS MATCHES. You know… so people can have jobs? Sometimes it seems like if SuperLuchas writers had their way, CMLL would be singles and tag matches every show with a title on the line every night. Sounds fantastic but what happens to the 80 guys on the roster who aren’t getting booked any more? It’s worked for 75+ years, why change now? Just b/c business has slowed down? C’mon now…
SuperLuchas is the best Mexican wrestling magazine there is but sometimes it really seems like it’s a magazine put together by Mexicans who cover Mexican promotions through the eyes of an American.
Perros TV is airing stuff from Arena Lopes Mateo today. I’m guessing two matches with Celestial/Turbo vs Aguilita/Black Thunder (much better use of Aguilita than the current minis matches) having aired and Grond XXX/Charly/Oriental vs Perro/Damian/Halloween coming on now.
They’re advertising the 20th show as being back in Ecatepec with Perro, Charly, Blue Demon, and LA Park being mentioned.
Rob:
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1) After complaining for a long time about how short the matches are, last week’s recap said the show went TOO LONG! So CMLL is screwed either way in the eyes of SuperLuchas. Meanwhile in the same issue you had a recap of an ROH show that was praised big time even though it went 4+ hours. Why is it okay ROH to go 4+ hours but CMLL goes over 2 and a half hours for the first time in many months and they get called out for being disruptive?
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I don’t like the short matches in Arena Mexico, but a long show is not better. The best for me is longer matches, but only five, not six, not seven.
Why?
The problem is Arena Mexico shows begins at 20:30 hrs… If the show finish at 23:00, it’s ok, but if the show goes longer, many fans have problems with the public transport and with the lack of cops in the street. Almost 80% of the fans don’t have a car, and they have to walk to the nearest metro stations. At midnight, the metro is not longer working. If the show don’t ends early, the fans must left the arena. The first ones are the people in the gradas section, and they can’t see the main event, for which they paid. Taxis are a luxury for those people. I wrote about that problem many times in the magazine.
Even with a girlfriend of mine in the past, many times she have to left the arena before the show ended, and I have to escort her to the metro and then return to the arena to write the report.
If the Friday shows began at 18:00, I do not have to complain if they lasts three, four or five hours…
In the other hand, the Sunday shows only lasts two hours or less. Yesterday, the show began at 17:10 and ended 19:02… Too short, even for a Sunday.
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2) The writer of this week’s recap seemed confused as to why there was a DQ for Angel Azteca being thrown over the top rope. He even threw in a line along the lines of: “such as what will happen this Sunday at the Royal Rumble.” The best analogy to this would be a writer at Pro Wrestling Illustrated being confused as to why HHH didn’t get disqualified for low blowing John Cena at Wrestlemania. Why is it CMLL’s job to suddenly follow the rules they use in the WWE? Why is anyone comparing the rules in the two companies?
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You can check the magazine version of my recap. The text ends: ” La segunda acabó por descalificación cuando los rudos arrojaron a Ángel Azteca por encima de la tercera cuerda”. The Royal Rumble comparison was an interpolation in the website, and I think they do that for web traffic reasons. I’m going to check that.
I agree with you: In Mexico, the disqualification is not because the wrestler throw the rival over the top rope. They do that in every match, even with a “salida de bandera” or a “derribe japonés”. The disqualification is when they rise the other wrestler and throw outside the ring in a treacherous way. The reason of the disqualification is because they try to hurt to the rival, not because is thrown over the top rope.
And for the last night show, I don’t like the rudo version of Mistico. He does a good work two weeks ago, when he teamed with Averno, but the sunday, he sucks.
I think he needs to be like an Averno type of rudo. Last night, the tecnico fans and the rudo fans, all booed Mistico. If the CMLL don’t change that, the eventual rudo turn is going to fail.
And it’s not fair insinuate that the critics to the CMLL are because their politics with the press. You can’t said that when you have read my Editorial Comment from this week issue of the magazine (#249):
“Por segunda semana consecutiva, el Torneo Nacional de Parejas Increíbles acaparó las miradas. Si la semana pasada vimos a un inédito Místico rudo, ahora hubo no sólo un Negro Casas conciliador y paternal, sino también un histórico y sincero abrazo entre uno de los Brazos y uno de los Villanos. Tan importante es señalar los errores como aplaudir los aciertos, y el CMLL merece los aplausos, porque en un par de semanas demostró que el cambio no implica perder la esencia. Aún sin dejar su estilo tradicional, esta empresa es capaz de sorprender al aficionado; es capaz de lograr que vuelva a soñar”.
What ever happened to Ricky Cruz and when did he and Scropio Jr. vacated the IWRG tag titles?
Seems like Dr Mascara or Ernesto Ocampo doesnt like to be criticize, when he can be very critical about other things, and yes it seems like he like most the american stuff then the mexican
@Infermas: Well, according to the ratings that come out, many Mexicans like American wrestling more than Lucha. Ocampo is simply going with the flow. Is it his patriotic duty as a Mexican to favor CMLL and AAA over WWE and TNA?
I don’t know who praised the ROH show for going 4+ hours. Fans were angry. I was there. Fans yelled, “this is bullshit”. After the match Tyler Black was so upset, he broke character, got the mic, and told the fans that they’re not real fans if they didn’t like the 60 minute match.
As for CMLL, I think 2 1/2 hours is perfect for them. In order to save time, the luchadors in the primera, segunda, y tercera have to come to the ring together. There are usually 30+ luchadors at Arena Mexico, and everyone can’t have their own music and intro. Sorry.
CMLL needs to have more one fall tag matches in my opinion. Only title or stipulation matches should be 2-out-of-3 falls.
@LLL: Duh is doesnt have anything to be about being patriotic or not thats dumb why always remarks the nationality or anything like that huh? im just sayin that Ocampo as the manager of the most important magazine of lucha libre he doesnt like critics on his work but he can critic others thats all get over LLL is nothing about patriotic or anything like that like rob says the CMLL has make changes and the editor of super luchas seems to not like anything of what CMLL do read up
@LLL: That’s very true.
Everyone is entitled to like whatever they want. I don’t think he has a ‘patriotic duty’ to like CMLL or AAA more than WWE or TNA.
I disliked “Dos Caras Jr. running away scared even though I’m a foot taller than you and supposedly a legit tough guy” rudo and would prefer Mistico not go down that route.
Especially the body paint.
@Infermas: You did point out that Ocampo likes the American stuff more than the Mexican. You brought up nationality, not me.
Ocampo is right about how bad it will be to turn Mistico. A
Speaking of Dos Caras Jr, keep an eye open for his match from last night on FCW on Brighthouse. Maybe the person who uploaded last week’s stuff has something new up.
@LLL: You are absolutely right. A lot of people in wrestling do not understand that there is a delicate balance between giving the fans their moneys worth, and killing a crowd by having things go too long.
Crowds are different everywhere, but when you get down to it, a wrestling show needs to be longer than two hours, but less than three. I have been involved with just about every facet of putting together a show, and unless you have a special event like an anniversary show, you cannot kill your crowd by having a show go long.
In the case of CMLL, if their crowd is going to be leaving during the main event to catch the train, then you need to go home earlier. If time management is the problem, then a good place to start would indeed be entrances. I’m sure the sheer number of matches on tournament shows do not make matters easier, but you have to plan that kinda stuff out better. Hell, do it over four weeks instead.
I do not think that eliminating 2/3 falls is the answer, as I assume all of these PI Tourney matches have been 1fall, right? Maybe cutting down on the time between falls would help (but my guess that is necessitated by replays on TV – which we could cut down on too, but thats a different rant for a different day), especially in the prelim non-televised matches.
CMLL should just start the show 1 hour earlier if public transit is that big of an issue for fans.
I have noticed these shows are on late based on how late the chats are whenever cubs does them for the show. I almost missed NUMB3RS one time!
@Arnold: Ricky Cruzz returned to Puerto Rico – Superluchas just wrote about him Monday, IIRC.
IWRG never officially said when Cruzz & Scorpio vacated, but the tournament to determine new champions started on 01/17. The poster for that show was up the Monday of that week, so you could say the titles were definitely vacant by 01/11.
@LLL: The problem with the 01/22 show specifically wasn’t even 2/3 falls or entrance times. As Nikita pointed out, they were most 1 fall matches, plus all the teams in the tournament came out together and there was only two sets of entrances for the main event.
The problem was, as noted before and after the show, that they scheduled at least one too many matches on the show. CMLL would’ve made if they cut one of these matches
1) Apocalipsis & Inquisidor b Sensei & Trueno
2) Diamante, Metálico, Pegasso b Bronco, Dr. X, Hooligan
3) Ángel de Oro, Fuego, Metro DQ Cancerbero, Raciel, Virus
Most of those guys work a lot and missing one show wasn’t going to kill them (I’m just making this up, so let’s say they pay them anyway), and few going to the show would even recall these matches anyway. None of these three matches were really that long, but these are the matches that had those seperate entrances so you probably could’ve saved 20 minutes and made the show come in on time.
It wasn’t really a surprise the show ran long once CMLL started giving actual time to the tournament matches. Those tournament matches are usually so short to avoid this situation, so I wonder if the person who OKed the matches going long didn’t talk to the person who scheduled six matches, because they should’ve seen the problem if they took a step back to look at the big picture.
They clearly realized this out between shows, which is why Volador/Mistico was rumored for last week but is actually happening this week. And hopefully they’ll either remember this in the future or take some of the other obvious (though not as easy) steps next time they have a show going long, like
– starting the show earlier!
– offering to fund money for extra/later police and transportation services
The people at CMLL know all of this, have known this for a thousand times longer than I’ve been doing this blog. And, from time to time, still make occasional mistakes.
@Nikita: The problem with all the 2/3 fall matches is that too many matches go all 3 falls. This changed slightly when CMLL introduced the lightning match, but it’s usually a prelim that goes 2 falls these days.
My beefs with 2/3 fall matches are many. One problem is that it feels like the wrestlers are going through the motions so to speak, in the first two falls. There is far less heat in the first fall for sure.
Another beef with so many falls, is that there are too many “finishes” on every show. Too many llaves and candados, and they often look the same. No one can be expected to be so creative.
Look at the 1/8 Arena Mexico show. 30 wrestlers on that card, and I’ll bet every one had their own music and separate ring intro. For matches 1, 2, and 4, I would have each team come out together, playing the music of the captain only. That would save precious time.
Another problem with 2/3 falls is the way it plays out on television produced by MVS/52mx. Often, each fall is a segment, and it makes for brutal television. Casual fans don’t want to see the same match taking up three segments. Trust me.
Compare this to AAA television. 1 fall usually needs just two television segments, and it makes for better television. Sure, AAA ratings are down, but we all know it has nothing to do with the number of falls.
You’re so right about the balance between too much and giving fans just the right amount. In the case of ROH, they just don’t care, as they’re trying to create a cult-like environment, and won’t listen, no matter how much fans complain.
@thecubsfan: You’re right about the tournament. I understood that point. I’m just complaining about the basic weekly CMLL show in general. As Ocampo pointed out, he has had problems himself with public transportation, and his girlfriend had to leave early. So it’s clearly an issue.
Even if CMLL did start at 20:00, the show still needs to be no longer than 2 1/2 hours.
I assume the 20:30 start time is a tradition that goes back to the days when Lucha Libre appealed to a mostly male demo that didn’t mind the late start, similar to today’s UFC crowd.
I saw the Dos. Jr. match and it was probably his and Heath’s best match. I still don’t like Heath Slater though.
@Ernesto Ocampo: I agree about the fact CMLL needs to start earlier. Dr. Lucha told me CMLL won’t do it because starting the show at 20:30 is “tradition”. But that makes no sense to me because when they run Anniversary shows they always start at 20:00. If it’s “tradition” to start at 20:30, why is it okay to change the time for your biggest show of the year but not for all the shows? It’s just another case of CMLL management being behind the times and not running the promotion properly.
The Sunday show does sound way too short. Maybe someone noticed because next week now has 6 matches instead of the usual 5.
I shouldn’t have said anything about rudo Mistico because you saw the match yesterday and I didn’t (and probably won’t if they air in on FSE only). My prediction is still that Volador will end up being the rudo on a team with Averno/Mephisto after this Friday.
As for the criticizing of CMLL, maybe I just read too much into it because CMLL is my favorite promotion and I dislike most of the American companies. Especially WWE, ROH and TNA. It just seems like most of the time CMLL gets called out when they do silly things. Sometimes they deserve it, sometimes they don’t. But if something wrong happens – it always gets mentioned. Meanwhile WWE/ROH/TNA always seem to get a pass and the bad stuff is ignored. For example:
TNA: In issue #346 when discussing the Hulk Hogan debut TNA show, there is no mention of how awful the first match was inside the cage. There is also no mention of Homicide getting stuck on top of the cage and looking like an idiot for almost 3 minutes before Jeff Hardy finally attacked him. The recap makes it sound like the show was incredible and ignores all the (many) problems.
@Infermas: Why would you say the people at SuperLuchas don’t like to be criticized? Just by replying to what I wrote Ernesto shows he is willing to accept criticism so that disproves your theory. If they didn’t like criticism they wouldn’t allow comments on their website or follow comments about their newsletter on another website.
Compare that to the Boy y Lucha website which has a forum that doesn’t allow you to write “superluchas” without being censored.
If you want an example of people who can’t take criticism – look no further than the CMLL programmers. You never hear from them except when they allow interviews once a year to media outlets who will only ask the most basic questions and not challenge them about anything. I would love to see any of the bookers agree to have someone on the SuperLuchas staff (preferably Ernesto) interview them just once.
@LLL: I agree with only one thing you wrote – combined entrances. There is no need for Marcela, Lluvia, Lady Apache, Amapola, Sujei and Blanca to all have seperate ring entrances that take up almost 10 minutes of time. Play Marcela’s music, bring out all the tecnicas. Play Amapola’s music, bring out all the rudas. 4 minutes at most. The only matches that should have seperate ring entrances are the top two.