CMLL’s been off and on FSE the last month and isn’t listed on the schedule. That’s because it’s done, at least on the US version of the channel, effective the end of 2008. The latest WrestlingObserver says the deal expired at the end of the year.
Outside 52MX (which almost no one gets since Comcast dropped it last May), there’s no more CMLL TV matches in the US. And, depressingly, the CMLL Mexico TV shows seem to be missing from the usual torrent sites. Was that always Lover_Ice’s video being uploaded by someone else, and so it’s not there because he didn’t want to deal with paying for megaupload bandwith and no one else is doing it? Because there had to be a better solution for him.
Gotta figure out what package LATV is on. If it’s on the general channels (because it’s a WGN digitial alternate channel here), I don’t need to keep the Spanish Language package. If it’s not…well, I like the show, but I don’t like the show for $16 a month (and I really could use the $16 extra.)
Most Comcast affiliates still carry 52mx as of December. Unfortunately for you Cubs, the Chicago system dropped it, while everyone else kept it.
Well that sucks but expected. I’m surprised you don’t get LATV for free like I do Cubs.
The best thing CMLL can do at the moment is to work out something with TNA. Like a highlight match per week on Impact featuring CMLL talent. TNA X division is suffering and CMLL guys can come in and save the division. Plus, TNA is adding a new show on Spike. I would seriously consider doing something with TNA.
I do not think you are going to see any more involvement between CMLL and TNA than you already are. CMLL protects their talent the same way the big Japanese companies do – they arent going to send over Mistico or any of the top talent to work in a non-main event role or featured roll. In addition, CMLL would gain nothing by doing this, and would lose out by having a guy on their payroll working someone else’s show and not drawing money at their arena. CMLL cares about CMLL’s draw and about CMLL making money – not people whom they have no way to make a buck off of.
If TNA really wanted to get involved with booking lucha talent, they would be smart to go after freelance guys (Wagner, Perro, Ciber) who do not necessarily have a full schedule handed to them by an “office”.
If CMLL cares about the US audience (and trust me, they do not), they could easily work out a deal with a number of Spanish language networks that are carried by the cable and dish companies. Hell, they could have just re-upped the deal with FSE.
If you wanna see any lucha libre other than AAA on Galavision, you are going to have to seek it out yourself.
I think Cubs gets it, but he’s just helping others find LATV.
I don’t understand why they wouldn’t look into some online distribution like ITunes. This would seem like a low cost way to reach a new fan base, and at $1.99 per show I think they could undercut a fair amount of the nonofficial DVD distribution and hit an international market with virtually no effort. Of course, I also don’t understand why they don’t produce some of their own DVDs so that there was a legitimate way for people to buy their product.
@Nikita:
I just said TV tapings. With CMLL roster, am sure they can send two guys to work one tv taping and it will not affect their draw in Mexico. TNA tape shows on Monday’s and Tuesday’s. They can send 4 guys to the Monday tapings and taped 2-3 matches every other week. Plus, Impact got a bigger audience than FSE.
Mistico is going back to Japan. I don’t see how that’s going to help CMLL in anyway. At least Mistico on Impact or ppv in the US/Canada has more of a chance of getting people to follow the CMLL product.
I have not considered CMLL on FSE an outlet for quite some time. Changing timeslots, preemptions, and lack of main events, makes it impossible to get into the show.
Interestingly, CMLL lists Sunday’s show at Arena Mexico as a 52mx taping only, and they always mentioned Fox Sports before.
@LLL: My mistake. When you click the lineup link on cmll.com, it still says Fox Sports.
I had Comcast in the Northeastern part of the United States and we lost 52MX like in November 06. I now have Verizon FIOS and get AAA, I wish I could get CMLL.
Hey Cubs, when/where can we hear the radio show you did where you answer questions posted here?
CMLL not being on Fox in the US can actually be a good thing, because it will allow other networks in the US to now try and get that one-hour show.
What other networks would seriously want CMLL? I doubt Univision would and Telemundo is with WWE.
No CMLL in the States… that’s pretty shitty news. I don’t get the people that are suggesting things like itunes, new channels and working with third-rate U.S. promotions. Why should CMLL care about getting their product on in the States? They don’t do business in the States. They never will. They can’t even manage to get a regular timeslot for their main show in Mexico for heavens sake!
Even AAA with their constant “we’re coming to America! Watch out!” (circa 2005) threats don’t have their shit together. Their TV show is still 3 weeks behind. Don’t you think if they cared they could get someone to sync it up with the Mexico feed or at least just be 6 days behind instead of 3 weeks? How about those largely forgettable California shows? They failed. Don’t argue it. If they were successful they’d have been back by now. (waiting for the laundry list of excuses forthcoming…)
There is barely any money to be made with wrestling in the States as it is. Last thing AAA or CMLL need to do is invest money in a sure failure. I’m sure AAA will try though.
“And, depressingly, the CMLL Mexico TV shows seem to be missing from the usual torrent sites.”
Those weren’t Lover_Ice’s caps. Same guy had been capping CMLL Gala, CMLL FSE (sometimes), IWRG and CMLL Puebla. They all seem to have been M.I.A. for the last two weeks though so I’m worried.:/
The only drawback with the LATV show is that they sometimes do repeats. I think they did repeat shows during the holidays.
I think LATV should get the FSE show, but judging by the commercials that air during the 30-minute Ras de Lona show, I’m thinking they’re not making enough to pay for a 1-hour show. I could be wrong.
Its funny, yesterday Kurt Brown and I were talking about the FSE show and he told me he had to trim some of the cable packages he had to save on money and I told him, I had just done the same with one of the Dish extras I had. Now I get this news.
Someone just needs to get TVC Deportes carried in the States and everyone will be set.:P
Are we even sure FSE in Mexico is still airing the show?
@Alfredo: I think you’re right, LATV may not be in play for a one-hour show.
Fox Sports was bad news anyway. And it’s just retarded to televise Lucha on a sports network these days.
But this will end up working out for CMLL, because I have a feeling they’ll end up on a network that respects their timeslot, and everyone will be happier. To much is happening in Spanish tv in the US for CMLL to be shut out of this market.
@Tim: It’s a question of price. If the price is right, Galavision, or syndication would be a good option. And what if a new network pops up?
@Rob: The shows in California were a success for the agent, but failure for the person who bought them. Too many fly-ins usually does it in the end.
I don’t know how much of an issue AAA being three weeks behind really is. It would only really matter if they did a PPV, and the build up angles aired after a PPV. If AAA is going to have success in the US with their house shows, PPV, movie, or merch, I’d prefer to air current, but three weeks is not that bad.
You’re right about working with TNA being a waste of time for CMLL.
CMLL may never be a force in the US, but if someone is willing to buy their footage, they’ll take the money.
But that’s the thing, What station has the money to buy a CMLL show? The only one doing big business right now is Univision in the US.
@Rob: in defense of the iTunes/etc suggestions: there doesn’t seem to be much money to be made in Japan, and those promotion are doing it.
The difference is those promotions need to work for more revenue sources to make money and CMLL doesn’t. Actually, the promotion doesn’t, but I’m sure the wrestlers wouldn’t mind it. If it was working there, I’d be so annoyed about the money they they’re never going to make, because CMLL hasn’t figured things like this out yet.
Really, when I start to think about how easy it’d be to
* hire some professional people
* create a sign up/login structure to ban those from Mexican IPs from viewing (so the scary TV killing spot shows boogeyman doesn’t get them)
* encode/upload the non-Televisa shows each week (so the messed up rights agreement doesn’t get them)
* charge some credit cards
it just gets me really annoyed. People who wrestle for CMLL do not generally get paid what they deserve, and while this certainly will not fix it completely, jit’s better than what they’re doing.
@LLL: should we open a donation box? I think I’ve just found $16.
Did we ever get a number on how the AAA PPVs did? I’m thinking “poor.”
I think syndication could work in the US. CMLL programming can’t cost much. Fox Sports was probably paying $1,500-$2,000 a week. FSE was only asking for $500 for a fixed :30 second spot on CMLL, with only 12 minutes available(Galavision has 16 minutes on AAA). Figure they were getting less than $500 since you always start the bidding high, and it shows you how cheap the show must’ve been.
That was the one good thing about CMLL every week on FSE-fewer commercials than any other show.
@LLL: My mistake. FSE went off two-four minutes before the hour, so it was more like 8-10 minutes minus promos for other FSE shows, and you see just how little the CMLL show was projected to generate. Either way, it was 48 minutes of show, which is 4 minutes per hour more than any other promotion on tv.
@thecubsfan:
“If it was working there, I’d be so annoyed about the money they they’re never going to make, because CMLL hasn’t figured things like this out yet.”
http://www.cmllshopping.com/ofertas.htm
Wow, so check it out… CMLL took the Fox Sports show off their TV listings on the website. So I guess the show is done everywhere, not just the States.
@Rob: I don’t view the ITunes/other online solution as being strictly for the US. This would mostly be found money for CMLL (and potentially the TV networks since they seem to have way to many rights in their deals with the Mexican promotions) since it gives them an ability to distribute worldwide shows that are already being produced. They already allow dvds to be sold outside Arena Mexico for 30 pesos each for anything that has aired in Mexico. Why not distribute your own digital content and make some money for the promotion, network, and luchadors?
@Alan: And I direct you to the same website as Cubs: http://www.cmllshopping.com/ofertas.htm
The page was created back in 2006 and hasn’t changed at all since that day. Well actually it has changed a bit… some figures got taken down b/c presumably they sold out. So the site must have been working and yet nobody has ever put any effort into updating it to make more money.
So if those shitheads can’t even manage to run a website so simple that I could probably run it if Cubs sat me down and taught it to me one day, how can we POSSIBLY expect them to put together something for itunes?
Always apply this principle to anything related to CMLL business:
* If it involves actual work, CMLL will not do it. *
You could get Paco’s # and call him up tomorrow to make a deal saying all he has to do is copy the same show they film every Sunday and send it to you. In exchange he will get a weekly royalty cheque. You know what will happen? He’ll agree to the deal and you’ll never get anything. Or you’ll get it the first week and nothing afterwards. It’s pure laziness. It’s embedded in the Mexican culture. It’s sad but true to quote Metalica.
Heck, look at the flash videos on the CMLL page. They used to show clips of 3 matches per show. Do you know how long it took to put together? Minutes at most. Then it became clips of 2 matches per show. Even that was too much! Now they show clips of one match set to the exact same music in each segment. Think about that for a second and it shows you the effort that is put into making their product look professional.
Don’t make me tell you all the Villano III/Signo story!
@Rob: I guess I’m not arguing that CMLL will figure out a useful online distribution of their content, only that they should (in much the same way that I assume you are not arguing that Konnan/AAA will improve their product only that it currently sucks). You’ve clearly been following lucha much longer than I have, and I’ll admit that I’ve seen nothing that makes me think that they will take the initiative to make it easier for their fans to see their product and for them to make some money. But that doesn’t make it less frustrating that there are relatively simple and cheap solutions available that they are not taking advantage of. I’m lucky enough to be in the middle of at least two years in Mexico City so that I can see pretty much everything on TV (though even I don’t get 52MX at this point) and take in some live shows. I can only hope that someone has figured out how to make some sort of lucha readily available by the time I leave. Until then, I’ll be stocking up on DVD-R’s.
On a sided note, Fox Sports down here is listing Lucha Libre through 1/17 (I can’t find any listings going out further than that). We’ll see if it actually airs, but I’m not seeing anything indicating that it has been dropped down here in the near future.
@Alan: Trust me, I’m as frustrated as you are. I’ve even sent some simple suggestions to one of the guys that updates the CMLL website and he says “yeah yeah, that’s a great idea!” but nothing ever comes of it. If they can’t figure out to take advantage of their website, I can’t see them figuring out to take advantage of itunes or anything similar. Even just hoping for it is a lost cause.
If you watch the TV show from a few months back when Alfonso Dantes died, you’ll see someone put together a video package airing clips from various matches. The clips were obviously put together with original footage so old CMLL is availble. Why did they only take advantage of it for a quick video to honor someone who died? It’s a nice gesture but why aren’t they making that footage available if they have it? Just pop in a tape and air a ‘luchas classicas’ show somewhere. It doesn’t involve any sort of top-notch production.
>Hey Cubs, when/where can we hear the radio show you did where you answer questions posted here?
Editing the show was quite the mother but I sent the new finished product to cubs, just a matter of time before he posts it.
@Tony Galvan: Thanks. I look forward to hearing it.
What? loverice gone? arghhhhhhhhhhh I’ve missed a ton of stuff and was hoping i’ll catch up but now… that’s not good.
Is IWRG gone as well from TVC?
btw I guess loverice will pop up with a different nick, I mean, loverice is not a good nick at all, well, not as bad as lamistica, but…
@xuisaw: Happy New Year Chui. I’ve missed your posts.
@xuisaw: CMLL leaving Fox Sports sounds too good to be true.
@xuisaw: FakeMistico 4 LIFE! If only FakeDosCaras would return.:(
TVC got rid of IWRG b/c (according to SuperLuchas magazine) IWRG was making all the big matches for their TV Azteca show. I.e. TV Azteca got the Cage of Death where Arlequin lost and TVC only got the Gemelos vs Cerebros in a hair match.
I think Lucha can’t work in FSE because it is a South American channel, not really intended for Mexico, maybe they have a different show for South America and locally they aired CMLL, but they would only air one or two commercials during the whole show (with lots of filler being own programming commercials).
Actually, TVCDeportes is (or was) in the same situation, they didn’t air commercials during WWE, IWRG or CMLL Puebla, well, maybe 1 or two paid by the government (more like some fiscal thing to do, not really paying)pretty much any TVCD show has very little commercials, while some networks like Universal Channel and Fox have as many spots as Televisa or Azteca, but, 70% of them are Colombian/Argentinian spots (kinda tricky because some brands do exist here).
I guess TVCD finances itself more on subscriptions than on commercials, but they have actually cut down lots of things, or so I’ve been told, they had NBA, but now they have the Spanish basketball league, they had some Mexican baseball (which Televisa dropped long ago), now they have cricket from Jamaica or something.
IWRG still exists in Azteca?
One can also guess that IWRG got upset at TVC because them having WWF and Puebla.
I wonder if TVC will end having FSE’s show, or else, there’s not much sense in having the sunday show taped.
Yeah, IWRG still does the Azteca show. Last show I saw via LoverIce had an awesome Oficiales match.
To backtrack a bit (since I’ve followed the conversation but wasnt able to post) – US wrestling fans dont “get” a few things about cultural differences that prevent things from happening that seem so simple. While I think Rob oversimplifies it with statements such as laziness being “embedded in the Mexican culture”, the fact is that Mexico is not as technologically advanced as the US.
Japan is a very technologically advanced country, and taking advantage of technology is embedded in the culture. When US wrestling fans seek out puroresu, it is relatively easy, because the chances are someone taped the show – be it a fan to share, an office worker to sell, or the show having been aired on television. Hell, hours after the 1/4 Tokyo dome show clips were popping up on youtube. I’m sure Highspots and tapetraders and other outlets will have the event available for purchase shortly, if it is not already.
In the US, every single indy promoter thinks they are going to make money hand over fist selling DVDs. Almost every indy wrestler has a camcorder and taped their matches, and either tries to sell DVDs and tapes, or puts clips on youtube. Hell, a lot of promotions that I work for have a hard time stopping fans from coming to shows and sitting in the crowd and taping the show on small digital cameras. Christ, backyard feds put out DVDs and upload their stuff to youtube.
Mexico, while not a 3rd world country, is just not as technologically advanced as the US and Japan. While a vast number of US and Japanese households have the internet (usually high-speed now-a-days), there are still a ton of Mexican households that cannot afford cable, or do not have fiber-optic phone lines. Hell, you still have towns where people do not have phones or ATMs.
So, while there may be an audience for lucha in the US, thus creating a demand, you have to understand that the people suppying the lucha have very little motivation to meet the demand. Why do you think it is that Chikara has DVDs for sale, but one of the oldest and largest wrestling companies in the world doesnt? Because the company is making money not via PPV, or television advertising, or by selling DVDs – but by drawing fans to arenas. CMLL makes money from concessions, and tickets. So, while it *seems* like they could easily make tons of cash by producing DVDs, in reality, it probably isnt (to them) worth the effort.
I just can’t believe we dont have a Mexican RF or Smart Mark video yet going around taping events or bootlegging tv shows to sell in the US. I think the enterprising fellow that figures that out will be able to make a few bucks.
I suspect or at least hope that some federation will come up with a means of distributing their product in the coming years. I would hope that they do it before bootleg products get too strong of a hold in the US market. I for one would be more than willing to pay $10-$15 for an official, relatively professionally produced product instead of $2-$3 for a CD-R outside of the arena. And, I would be more than willing to pay a reasonable fee for online content once I no longer live where I can watch it on TV. But, I agree that it is culturally unlikely to happen immediately due to the importance of live attendance for the major Mexican promotions. Maybe one of the third or fourth level promotions will beat them to it.
FYI, Fox Sports is still advertising Lucha Libre down here during the BCS Championship. Not sure if it is just for this weekend (last weekends taping) or if they are airing more in the coming weeks.
@Alan: Until we hear something more official, we’re probably jumping the gun assuming CMLL is off FSE on a worldwide basis. Chui is right about one thing-FSE is not the right network for Lucha. They’re basically a soccer channel, followed by other sports.
Maybe WON assumed they’re off Fox?
@LLL: Like I said originally, the WON only said they were off Fox Sports *Espanol*.
@LLL: I assume they are still on here since the listings are showing up for the next two weekends. I thought Rob had said in an earlier post that they had been removed from the CMLL tv grid, but it is listed there at this point.